Eastern Tn logging on the DG CC & W RR 1928

Discussion in 'Logging, Mining and Industrial Railroads' started by Bill Nelson, Dec 15, 2008.

  1. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    ASL A-1A  MM's  mogul #1.jpg project drift

    I have been cleaning a lot of cars off of my work bench hoping to clear my workbench off enough to clear off enough space to start carving more rocks for my union station project.


    as usual something intervened. cleaning up the bathroom my wife discarded two electric tooth brushes. I took them apart, and the motors looked like they might be useful, as they were relatively small, and quite torquey. they didn't fit anything on the project list, but when I was putting them up I found a motor that looked like it might fit in my Mom's old Ken Kidder Porter Mogul. I had stuck a gear reduction motor in it, but it stuck too far out the back of the cab, and was way too slow, so I have been wasting some time messing with a motor swap. I have messed with it enough to know it will fit, am struggling to get a smooth connector between two radically different shaft sizes in a very tight space. If I can solve that problem, this locomotive should have some good slow speed characteristics, and a close to prototypical top speed working off DC. the locomotive still needs a lot of work on electrical pick up, especially on the tender, which does not pick up well. I'll have to work with what I have there, no one makes good wheels and axles this small much less trucks.


    Bill Nelson
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  2. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    ASL A-1  M& N G PASS CRS #8.jpg more fun with lettering

    I got my M & N G standard gauge interchange passenger cars lettered. the narrow gauge car was used for a reference
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  3. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    ASL_A1 attic acces  doors #1.jpg progress on the attic access

    I got the Attic access hole framed in most of the way (I need another 1x4 to complete) and I cut the doors down from the paneling I had used to cover the hole. The paneling is not in great shape; and I considered replacing it, put I used the old paneling cover over the access as a bulletin board, and will probably do the same with this one.


    I got one of the doors hung. Sadly I did my hardware shopping after working a graveyard shift, and besides not figuring the 1x4 requirements correctly, I did not realize that the T hinges I bought were one per bag, not a pair, so I will have to go back for another 1x4 and two more hinges.

    In the photo you can see the desk, and the newly framed opening to the north attic. to the left of the attic access is the narrow gauge return loop @ Gegokayoosa, under the pile of Styrofoam and you can see how close to the ceiling it is. to the right of the desk you can see an exhaust flue for the gas fireplace in my family room. Next time I have some sheetrock scraps I need to fill in the hole in the wall above that flue.

    It used to be really hard to get into the attic here, as one had to go up a ladder, and remove the paneling cover. with the desk there, I can climb up the desk, and open the doors. Next I will have to reorganize in the attic to make room for parts of the railroad as I start to tear down and rebuild a large portion of my RR.
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  4. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

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    Progress!!!

    Looking good Bill. Glad to see the rebuild has commenced.

    Tom
  5. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    So far just steps to get ready for the tear down, with the exception of the new control panel, all this would be useful even if I did not alter my railroad.


    the first thing to go once I actually start removing things will be the Southern staging tracks. I can replace them with shelfs under Tom's Bend an Murray. The big step would come when I start to remove the upper deck either at the Gizzard or at Ridgemont.
  6. res911

    res911 New Member

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    Home Rebuild

    Still want the mountain...:wave:
  7. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    I keep telling you; the mountain went up those steep steps before there was sheet rock on the walls in the upstairs hall, and I had to remove two studs to get it to go around the corner, so no one is getting the mountain in one piece! I may be able to give you chunks of mountain that don't get re used. I will probably miss some of the drama provided by the tight curves and steep grades, but I'm longing to be able to run my rod locomotives more, and would like to have trains longer than six cars long. sadly the Gizzard's scenery is mostly plaster of paris on aluminum screen wire, and is unlikely to survive being cut up much. Sander's Ridge, and Terrapin were done with cardboard wickerwork, and paper or cloth covered with Hydrocal Dental stone, and I should be able to save hugh sections of the mixed castings and carvings. I may use some of that surviving rock work to make new moulds, as my old molds have secumed to the ravages of time.
  8. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    ASL attic  acess  #1.jpg into the 2nd level of the attic!!

    My house is a split level, with the original 1870 portion having 12 foot ceilings. The previous owner had added two rooms with an 8 foot ceiling. when we added to the house, we removed the wall between those two rooms to make a large family room, and tore off the roof, and built another matching the old house's roof line, creating what is my railroad room in the resulting attic space. from the ground level we added stairs down to a garage, and two bedrooms and a bath for the kids above the garage. the attic access I have been working on is above the kid's bedrooms.


    I got the other side door on it's hinges, and went up into the attic, probably for the first time since we had a new metal roof installed. it was dirty as heck up there, but I got stuff moved around, and looked into the boxes and trunks that were up there to figure out what was stored up there. there was a big steamer trunk tat is empty, so I can use it to store some of my more valuable goodies up there. I have to take down about three large trash bags of **** from up there, and sweep it up (it looks like unknown animals have been doing unspeakable things up there), and then I can start moving my empty boxes and chunks of styrofoam up there. and free up the space in my RR room so I can move around to start tearing things up.


    Bill Nelson
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  9. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    ASL A_1a dsk & attic door  #3.jpg doors hung

    I got the doors hung on the attic opening, and some 2x4s cut to fit under the desk to raise it up, so I can fit a power chord under it, and route wires under it to go to the layout to power the blocks.


    I started to load stuff up in the attic, starting with the Styrofoam that was stacked on the narrow gauge return loop @ Gegokayoosa, so I can get trains up on the loop again.



    Nelson
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  10. kennyrach

    kennyrach Member

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    start tearing things .How must layout are you rebuilding .Also the attic door look super
  11. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    My plans are to remove the central peninsula , which has Harlow on the lower level, and The Gizzard and Terrapin on the upper level, My lowest level, which is the Southern staging, and Montgomery furnace (the iron furnace area) on the lower level on the back wall, and Ridgemont above it, that has the Narrow gauge/ standard gauge reload for iron ore and logs.

    essentially I will be removing about two thirds of my layout, leaving only the big Sawmill area, Crooked Creek, State line, the dual gauge shelf above it, and The narrow gauge on the six foot two inch tall shelf hanging off the ceiling Gegokayoosa (Cherokee for Bleeding Nose)



    when I rebuild the center peninsula will have three levels instead of two, and will be oriented in the opposite direction. I have a nook in the corner that is big enough to hole a 21 inch radius helix. Using the plan I have been working on for a couple years, I can change the minimum radius on my main from 18 inches to 21 inches. I should be able to triple the main line run on my railroad, and add a return loop to the low end to make my plan a point to loop instead of a point to point. More than half of my current railroad has steep grades, going as steep as 8.5%, which is accessible only by my geared locomotives. using the helix, I can reduce the ruling grade to 3.3%, which will allow my rod locomotives to go most everywhere on my layout, and will allow longer trains, as an eight car train is about all that can be accommodated on my mountains. I have the shapes of the bench-work figured out, and the approximate height of the different levels. I'm still working on exact track location. I'm going to try to keep the track a simple as possible, but there will be four levels in places. I'm hoping to represent most all of the stuff I do on my current railroad, with the logging camp, the ore and log transfers, the iron furnaces and coke ovens, and the city of Harlow all being larger. I think my dramatic scenery will suffer some, but there will be more room for operation, as well as the ability to run longer trains. I can't wait to be able to run my signature Little River 2-4-4-2s over my whole system.


    Bill Nelson
  12. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

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    You are right Little River #148, the unique Baldwin 2-4-4-2 ,is a beautiful engine.

    Tom

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  13. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    21 .jpg love them 2-4-4-0s

    QUOTE=Doctor G;963982]You are right Little River #148, the unique Baldwin 2-4-4-2 ,is a beautiful engine.

    Tom[/QUOTE]


    Looking through my logging books, when my folks moved from Ohio to Georgia when I was in High school, the pictures of the Little River was one of the main inspirations leading me to place my Railroad in Tennessee, Years before I would end up in college in the mountains of Tennessee myself.


    In Atlanta, in the early 1970's I picked up my first #148, my #21 and ancient Gem import. it is a stunning model, but was a mechanical mess, with years of work, I got most of it's issues squared away; it is still very noisy due to some spur gears, but with a powerful can motor, some suspension work, and lots of weight it is a hoss.


    My second # 148, my #22 is an Overland power plus locomotive. it is a composite locomotive, with a die cast boiler and frame, and brass details. It is a fine looking locomotive, but it's detail is not quite as fine as the Gem model. On the other hand, is has an excellent mechanism , very smooth and quiet. Due to the fact it has a cast metal boiler, It can't be loaded up with lead (or tungsten) to get it's weight up. I may be able to make some suspension changes, but I need to study up I have not figured out how to disassemble it. there is an article in an old Timber Times, a logging modeling magazine, that I need to get a reprint of on improving this locomotive, It runs so smoothly I'm hesitant to touch it .

    One issue with these locomotives is looking nearly identical, they cannot be used in the exact same capacity, as #21 can pull twice as much as #22 . Once I do my rebuild, and these locomotives have room to run, I will probably put #22 in passenger service, letting #21 do freight and mixed trains

    in this photo #21's nose is a little high, this is due to a spring that puts weight on the front truck. when I bought this model there was no weight on the front truck, and It could pull four cars on the flat. I installed the spring, and packed the boiler with lead, and it could pull 28 cars up a 2% grade. this is an old photo, as #21 and # 22 have red roofs like most of my locomotives, also it needs a good dusting in this photo.

    at some point it will loose it's wood load, as I'm converting most all of my main line power to coal #1 mt primordial antlered 4-4-0 will remain a woodburner.

    when I build my new plan I'm going to have to put some wander in my long straight tracks, so I can see the 2-4-4-2s do their little dance


    Nelson
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  14. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

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    Neat picture.

    That locomotive looks good. Here is a drawing I always liked.

    Tom

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  15. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    ASL A-1 M's Pm #2.jpg ASL A-1 M's Pm #1.jpg and now for something completely different

    My Mom's ken Kidder Porter Mogul has been in my shops for some time. I got a gear reduction motor in it, but that was too slow. This small open frame motor would almost fit in the cab only sticking out a little. the original motor stuck out, and was so old it was a three pole motor.


    Not sure where the motor came from, I had a similar motor out of a Hornsby OO Thomas, but that one went into a 2-4-2 I'm working on as a M&NG standard gauge switcher / interchange engine for State Line.

    The motor is noisy, but has very good slow speed control. I have some improved electrical pick up on both sides of the locomotive frame. the tender pick up is awful, and my attempts to improve it have either not worked or messed up the truck equalization , so that is something I can work on.

    I was cleaning up my work bench and found some tiny NWSL cardigan cups. the shaft on the motor was much smaller than the shaft on the gearbox, and the NWSL cardigan shafts were smaller still, so I drilled them out to fit the larger shafts. hooked directly to a power pack the slow speed control is great, as soon as the pick up issues are sorted out it can go to the shops for a paint job to become a very low numbered DG CC & W RR locomotive #1's number is safe, but I may bump #2, #3, or #4 out of their spot. #4 would be easiest, as it is a class A climax that is numbered, but not lettered. I could easily transfer it to the Strong and Perry Lumber co. to open a spot. Hopefully this locomotive will run well with a locomotive with a freight pilot on it, cause even a 3.3 percent grade will severely limit this critter.


    Bill Nelson
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  16. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    A     IMTD  SS &  Tckwy  rmvd.jpg A     IMTD   Mtgmry frnce gone #2.jpg A     IMTD   Mtgmry frnce gone #3.jpg I have been contemplating a major rebuild of my railroad for a long time. I have taken a lot of time with the redesign process, as I really like the looks of my current mountain. My rebuild will give me a much longer run , and will allow me to use my Valley division ruling grade as the ruling grade for the entire main line. My Mountain division currently has 8.5% grades. so this rebuild will allow my rod locomotives to run trains on my whole system. 28 years ago , when I started this railroad, I had only one excellently running rod locomotive, and six or seven excelent running geared locomotives, so the steep grades were not a deal breaker. in the m ean time iI have rebuilt a lot of my rod power, and improved their running capabiliities emensely.



    My new plan will use a helix in what used to be my dispatcher's nook to get the required altitude gains needed for a five level rialroad. I started tearing out my railroad in the south eastern corner removing Ridgemont Tn. on the top level, Montgomery Furnace on the level below that, Tuckaway ( a log camp staging yard below that, and, below that my Southern Staging yard down below that. all of it gone in an orgy of destruction.



    I hope my spelling isn't too ban I'd dislexic, and I think my spell checker switched itself to German, as it thinks everything is misspelled, and the sugested replacement are not english.
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  17. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    ASL A-1a  back aisle.jpg ASLA_1 once and future harlow yard and EF.jpg Asl a-1  Gzrd corner bare.jpg ASL A-1a  attacc bul brd.jpg ASL A-1  blt brd ovflw on dr.jpg I have made serious progress, the south east corner is clear, and I have even cleaned the floor. I have separated out the plywood under the Harlow engine facilities, so once I know exactly how I can re ruse it, I can trim it to fit. the curved cribbing that was along the back side of the turntable, I was able to remove in one piece , and I'm hoping to modify it and use it behind the turntable in State line.




    I have started work removing the Harlow yard which currently consists of three yard tracks and the main, with a little passing siding at the yard throat. In the next incarnation this yard will be up against the east wall on a shelf, with the main off on the center peninsula. I'm going to use the former main as a caboose and coach track.

    the top level of the central peninsula, Perry's gizard was started as a modular section, and had the track and some of the scenery done when the last incarnation of my railroad was started. It was built originally as a companion piece to my Bumpass module, originally in a rental house, and then in a trailer (both in Nashville); then it was in a back bedroom of our farmhouse when we were able to move back into our farmhouse full time. So when it was raised up into place in my new attic space when we added to the farmhouse, it was the Gizzards fourth time as a part of a railroad. As soon as I put it up there, maybee twenty three years ago, I started using the tall fashia of the layout as a bullitein board. Just this last weekend, I moved all of the stuff off the outside corner. most of it I re-posted on my new attic door, and on the door to the railroad room.

    Next I need to do some cleaning and organizing in the attic, and then box up the stuff on the shelves on the east wall, so I can build new shelves on the east wall to carry several levels of track, with some passing sidings to use as staging, so I can operate Crooked creek as a humongous switching layout, while I tear out my center peninsula, where my best scenery is. it will be easier to do now, as the tracks no longer go anywhere.



    Nelson
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  18. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    ASL A-1a  Smaugs new home #1.jpg ASL A-1a  Smaugs new home #2.jpg Scrap  wood  from shelves behind  harlow.jpg.jpg progress, and habitat destruction

    Well the Harlow yard is out, and the bridges in Terrapin are out. I have removed most of the trees off of Terrapin, Sander's ridge, and Perry's Gizzard disloging that area's largest inhabitant Smaug.

    I had classified Smaug as a Red-Gold Dragon, But Dr Tom, being a very well educated guy, was able to come up with a much more specific identification. On his first trip to visit my RR, well back before the beginning of recorded time, Dr Tom Quickly spotted Smaug, perching on the highest rock outcropping, as is his want; and Tom said; "Look there is a common, ordinary, everyday , Tennessee Mountain Dragon", and so he is.

    Well The trees are coming off of Terrapin, Sanders Ridge, and Perry's Gizzard. while Gegokayoosa has plently altitude, there, as of yet, are no rock outcroppings up there, so Smaug has descended into the valley to take up residence on the tallest remaining rock ledge not slated for destruction ( Smaug is a forward thinking creature); which happens to be in Tom's Bend, the high rent end of Crooked Creek. for the first time in over 25 years Smaug has neighbors. If you live in Tom's bend, be advised, your insurance rates are going to go up steeply.

    in other news the shelves behind Harlow are all removed. I had three boxes on those shelves that had strip wood and other useful wood scraps that I consolidated into one box. ( I have lots more scrap wood elsewhere, much of it way to long to fit in this box
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  19. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    ASLA_1a  NW  SL  Shelves.jpg ASLA-1a  nw  lftout  joint.jpg new benchwork up

    I put up some benchwork on the southeastern corner of the RR room at the state line level, which is the third level. I have put down a small section of narrow gauge in the back to test the fit of the south attic acess liftout. on the liftouts corner, I made a transition from code 70 dual gauge track to standard gauge code 83 track.


    I have the first switch in for the ore transfer, which is going to be smaller and more cramped than I had hoped, but it should be mare opperable, and look better than an earlir plan that allowed for larger facilities.
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  20. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    ASLA-1a  CC LV  SE cnr.jpg ASLa-1a se corner  clean.jpg ASLA-1  lw bnchwrk.jpg ASLA-1a   test fit bridge.jpg new progress in the SE Corner

    I did some reorganizing in the attic, which made space for a lot of the stuff that was junking up the aisles, which makes it easier do do stuff. ; also with the SE corner completely clear : I had some big sterio speakers and a pile of lumber in that corner.


    with the corner cleared out I put in some very low benchwork for the lowest level, comming off of the passing sidding at murray, which is tucked under Crooked Creek the bottom end of this siding used to be level, but I reworked it attempting to match the grade in Tom's bend, which if all goes well will be the ruling grade for the entire mainline. I put the benchwork way low, as this plan will lack for places for deep scenery, where the scene extends way down below the grade line, as on the upper two decks, that will impinge on the deck below. That isn't a problem on the lowest deck So I droped the benchwork way down so I could fit a tall bridge, and the tannery that used to be on the backside of Harlow.

    I also test fit the corner shelf for the Crooked creek level. it will be a very narrow shelf set back as far as possible, so as to not obstruct the view of the river crossing. As I ran the crooked Creek level track, it exposed some errors in my altitude calculations and or assumptions, if the crooked creek level climbs all the way down the wall it will be too high for Harlow, much less the Southern staging where I was hoping to tag it in. So it will climb more gently, and land directly in the Harlow yards. this will shorten the run considerably, but greatly simplify the Southern staging level. this is a lot of fun, I could be actually be working on some scenrey soon, as I like to do scenery around bridges early, as you can really mess up a bridge doing scenery around it. much better to build the scenery first and fit the bridge to it.


    The third photo gives an idea of the intended seperation between the levels, I'm aiming at aproximately 18 inches between the roadbed level and the bottom of the benchwork above, hopefully I can make that taller at the lowest level so the mid level doesn't block the view as much, and I may be able to get away with less at the second level . there is only a four or five inch seperation between the eye level at state line, and the over the head level at Gegokayoosa, but being eye level , and very skinny one can see in that hole very well (unless you are short); in which case gool luck trying to look at Gegokayoosa, where a six foot person needs to stand on a milk crate.



    I need to get back to the lumber store, I'm about out of the plywood I used for roadbed, and I have thirteen feet of shelf to do on three levels. Boy howdy this is fun. sadly no power to anything yet, as soon as I have those three shelves in, I will try to start hooking up some power to the remaining blocks and the new ones, as from the new Harlow TN. yard to Sander's Switch TN. on the level below it through Crooked Creek TN. , and Murray TN.; I will have over 53 feet of main line, without getting to the center aisle, the helix, or the upper standard gauge level yet. This has been painfull up till recently, it is starting to be fun.!

    MY browser switched it's spell checker to another language again, hope I didn't mess up too bad.
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015