hi, JT, sorry i didn't check the thread to see your earlier posts. to make a hole in a square in MetaLE, the procedure is basically the same as for making the indentation, except that instead of a globe you use a cylinder. remove the middle point at each end of it, invert the faces, and align the ends of the cylinder with the corresponding sides of the cube. delete the sides of the cube that you don't need, and then connect the points of each end of the cylinder to the corresponding 4 points of the side of the cube to which it is aligned. you'll still end up with what sjsquirrel shows in the 2nd image he attached. your idea of converting a donut could work, using the "align vertices" command to flatten sides. but you may have to spend more time in making sure that they outer sides form a square, and each side may be divided into more faces than you would like (depending on how round the inner hole is).