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Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Alien99, Feb 1, 2009.
OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! And now for the textures!!!! Jan, you are my new God!
WOW! Incredible 3D model....and so fast. Can't wait to build this.
waw, if the textures are as good as your 3d model... i must check my printer now... hamr
I can't wait to see the textures. That is my favorite part of the Jan's papercraft models. I only wish I could be just 1/1000th as skilled.
Jan, I just have one question, how long would the Sulaco be, in real scale? I could be doing the math all wrong, but I have a scource that says she clocks in at 385 metres long, but if I scale out your figures she explodes at 954.6 metres, from every scale. Personally, I like the idea of her being that big, but it does make her bigger than the Enterprise E, and considering in the movie the marines are the whole crew (considering Bishop has to remote pilot the second dropship down to get them off LV-426) this means, we have The Enterprise crewed by over 400 people, at 685 metres long, and the Sulaco at 954 m crewed by 10 people and a Synth... with no Captain, or engineering personel, or medics, this just seems weird to me.
And yes, I know it's just sci-fi, lol! But I like things to make a little sense too, hahahah!
So, I'm just really wondering how big she is, and if I'd mucked up the math, lol!
Actually, Stev0 might be able to shed light on my problem, he has a copy of the tech manual...? Stev0, help me out here could ya?
Sorry, not Stev0, silent lord, could you help me out, what does the Tech manual say?
Sorry, Stev0, my bad!
One last thing, again, the 27 metre 1:24 scale at full size works out to 645 metres... a different lenght again. Man, am i confused.
The Conestoga Class is 385 meters according to the Aliens Technical Manual. The ship is to be replaced by the Bougainville Class.
So if we take 1/87 scale @ 0.011494252873563218390804597701149
0.011494252873563218390804597701149 x 385 = 4.4252873563218390804597701149425 meters or simply 4425mm long.
If you take his existing 1/148 scale dropships you would have a 2601mm long SULACO (NOT DROPSHIP). [edit: my bad typo]
Of course this is if we use one book's information. Can we really regard that manual as canon? Take a look at the FASA books for Star Trek, the only technical manuals available outside of the Ballantine Manual from 75' for The Original Series. Much of the Fasa material if not all was tossed out as 'non-canon'.
Hmm. the scaling on this would seem to make the dropship considerably larger than the 85ish feet that its supposed to be, as well. (122'? bigger than a C130 by more than 20') But I susspect it maybe another one of those scale anomolies caused by hollywood directors and propmakers not attempting to make rational sense of scale, just prefering everthing to look cool and not worrying about if it'll fit or not.
Case in point: The Aliens APC is about 50% bigger on the inside than on the outside.
Other examples are Star Wars' Millenium Facon exterior sets being significantly undersized, Two different classes/sizes of Klingon Bird of Prey (brought about by sloppy continuity/photography making the model appear way bigger than it should- there was only ever one model) and of course the utter inability to fit 95 rounds of 10mm "caseless" into a pulse rifle (the prop had a 20 round mag, rather foolishly/obviously shown in the movie)
Anyhoo, none of this bothers me in the slightest. this may be one of the coolest models ever. Mind I'm looking forward to the (hopefully) impending t-800 just as much...)
Ok, yeah, cool. I'm such a nerd. Plus I also found that the USS Sulaco would NORMALLY run with a crew of 90, capable of transporting 2000 marines in Cryo-stassis... is that in the manual too? That would mean the ship'd be HUGE at least 954 m, instead of 385 m, but the manual says 385m? Ok then.
I think Mousemuffins is right, about the pulse-rifle and APC, there are huge problems there... oh well. Yeh, the Millenium Falcon is a bit like the TARDIS... And considering the Sulaco was originally the design for the pulserifle and was dropped cos it looked too much like a ray-gun... I guess there's no way of being able to say how big she is meant to be. Still, I don't care, I want one! Jan says the internal sructure will be constructed by "blocks" which is awesome, should make it easy to re-enforce the heck out of the finnished product. I can't wait, I need a time machine...
Oh, and thanks for that StevO I was wall1, but now i'm :thumb:! So thanks for all that.
OK I´ll try to solve the SCALE PROBLEM of the Sulaco versus the UD-4L Dropship once and for all.
All scale calculations maked before were predictions. so they are little bit unaccurate.
We will talk about real scale, real lenght of that ship :thumb:
...I must say, that I saw the Colonial Marine Technical Manual (CMTM) very cursorily.
I watched the pictures only.:mrgreen:
So the work began with the UD-4L Dropship scaled to the human high (1.8m) and the APC Carrier
by the movie.....I ve calculated that the Dropship will be 26.55 meter in lenght.
Colonial Marine Technical Manual saying, that the dropship has 25.18 meters.
SO?...It´s allmost the same number. I can say that the creators of CMTM have right informations. (or they calculate it without the front antenna)
Next step was fitting the dropship into HANGAR DOOR LAYOUT. I must scaled the door by the dropship shape
and this is the most real one.(compared with the prop photos of the Alien Quadrilogy)
Size of the hangar doors was a clue to the Uss Sulaco scale.
I´f you will see the photos of the real prop , you will notice that the hangar doors are pretty small to the rest of the mass.
Pictures are situated in http://www.starshipmodeler.com/tech/othr_ref.htm ( or in bonus disc of the ALIENS S.E.)
After all that hard (condition-comparations) work between the movie prop photos and my 3D model, I can fully say that the
Uss Sulaco , the Conestoga class starship is 731.6 meters long (in real).
For those, who are experienced in towers heighs allready know that the tower tallness is calculate without antennas
and other telecomonical structures...If you aplicate this rule into Sulaco u will obtain the 570.2 meters. (without antenna array).
And what is saying CMTM about Sulaco specifications?....only this:cry:
Pardon me ,but "over" 385 meters in lenght ?....it can be one kilometer for example....
If autor(s) of CMTM means 385 meters plus minus 1meter ....this is completely WRONG.:curse:
Lets see the Sulaco layout again with a little zoom to the hangar section.
You will notice that the hangar itself will be around 75 meters in lenght.(that is 1/5 of the lenght of the Sulaco in CMTM),
but the ratio is allmost 1/10 in real scale.:thumb:
Well?...I mean that , the things are situated in right light now
Thanks to Silent Lord, I looked into CMTM again an saw the weapon layout....from now on I will know the positions of the weapons but the written infos in CMTM about the ships and vehicles you must take with high reserve.:mrgreen:
My friend scanned me some infos from his CMTM purchased on Ebay for 45USD. ...THIS WAY I THANKS HIM.
---I hope that the scale prolem is solvedsign1---
All imortant question
How big is the Model?
Great work on solving the size issues. I've also run into huge "fluff" inconsistencies, and much prefer using the ol' Mk. I eyeball such as Jan has used, starting with the known dimensions of the typical man. Keep in mind that the writers of these "technical manuals" are people like us, who love fluff, and background stuff for these sci fi worlds but ultimately they have to make a whole bunch of stuff up, and sometimes they just plain get it wrong....plus they're usually under lots of publisher time pressure.
Now let's stop bugging Jan with questions that might distract him from his task at hand.
Jan: Stop calculating dimensions and get back to texturing this beautiful model. I need it NOW!
Edit... I said 2m+ dropship when I should have said 2m+ Sulacco @ 1/148
Apologies for my typo.
edit: lol I made a typo in my typo... I'm tired right now. sign1
Good work on the figures Jan... I pretty much thought that the tech manual would have holes in it in regards to sizes.
I would have to say that what you figured out would be canon because ... well it makes sense.
glad to be of help in anyway i can.
love aliens. (even the other movies. yeah i know. lol)
and i love this and your other work even more!!!
Last word to the scale....I will try to make a whole thing into one meter and 70 centimeters....there are lots of variables..the printer setting specially..and so on....ok....:mrgreen:
...and now from the other hand...I´ve created a little video with the 3d model of the Sulaco:thumb:
just try to look at youtube:
hi-res version available
thats all for today...good night