Rock Island
- Thread starter Bob Collins
- Start date
Errol;
200 miles for me doesn't mean a whole lot, but for you it would take you to half a dozen different countries
It would also get you to York, I believe, where you could visit their outstanding railroad museum
And you could get their by rail, which I can't
Bob
If you find you map take a look up along the Nebraska side of the Nebraska - South Dakota border. As you move west from Norfolk to Lone Pine, Valentine, Rushville to Chadron, that is where there was, for year a narrow gauge railroad that then turned north into South Dakota and into the Black Hills. The portion from I believe Valentine to the Black Hills is still in operation. They haul almost exclusively grain. First and only time I think I've ever seen a narrow gauge F-1 or F-2. When I was a kid is was, of course, strickly steam
Bob
200 miles for me doesn't mean a whole lot, but for you it would take you to half a dozen different countries
It would also get you to York, I believe, where you could visit their outstanding railroad museum
And you could get their by rail, which I can't
Bob
If you find you map take a look up along the Nebraska side of the Nebraska - South Dakota border. As you move west from Norfolk to Lone Pine, Valentine, Rushville to Chadron, that is where there was, for year a narrow gauge railroad that then turned north into South Dakota and into the Black Hills. The portion from I believe Valentine to the Black Hills is still in operation. They haul almost exclusively grain. First and only time I think I've ever seen a narrow gauge F-1 or F-2. When I was a kid is was, of course, strickly steam
Bob
Bob -
The ROCK did go into Sioux Falls at one time - the track up from Des Moines is now abandoned. They even went to Clear Lake, SD - but I don't know why!
By the way, I use to live in Rapid City from 1982-1986 (stationed at Ellsworth AFB), and have been down to Chadron. The Museum of the Fur Trade is there. My hobby was historical re-enacting (1840 Fur Trade) at that time, so I was very interested in this fine museum. I also rode the Black Hills steam locomotive up by Hill City while I was there. Lot's of fun in them there hills!
I seem to have a lot of "homes" - Athens (GA), Rapid (SD), Wichita (KS), and now Bettendorf (IA), and that's only as an "adult" (whatever THEY are!).
Well, that's me all over (as the Scarecrow said)!
Errol -
I have the BN transfer coal to the RI in my QCA layout. In reality, today the BN (or the UP) transfers coal to the IMRL (now ICE) for Electrical Power plants in this area. My RI is a large regional RR in the 1990's, so does the work of the IMRL and Iowa Interstate (plus has passenger rail to an AMTRAK hub and to Omaha).
The point is, be as realistic (or not) as you like!! Deside on what and when you are, and go from there! Myself, I'm going to paint a F40PH black and put a blue "R" and white "THE ROCK" lettering on it! If the RI existed in the 90's, they would have got one to update their passenger equipment!
I see no problem with your RIL meeting the BN at, say, the Quad Cities (Bettendorf, Rock Island, Davenport, Moline) - or the C&NW at Sioux Falls. Go for it !!!
And have fun !!!
Shane -
My family was walking out the door as I hit the "submit" button ...I had to hurry, because there they went, and I was their leader !!!
- George
The ROCK did go into Sioux Falls at one time - the track up from Des Moines is now abandoned. They even went to Clear Lake, SD - but I don't know why!
By the way, I use to live in Rapid City from 1982-1986 (stationed at Ellsworth AFB), and have been down to Chadron. The Museum of the Fur Trade is there. My hobby was historical re-enacting (1840 Fur Trade) at that time, so I was very interested in this fine museum. I also rode the Black Hills steam locomotive up by Hill City while I was there. Lot's of fun in them there hills!
I seem to have a lot of "homes" - Athens (GA), Rapid (SD), Wichita (KS), and now Bettendorf (IA), and that's only as an "adult" (whatever THEY are!).
Well, that's me all over (as the Scarecrow said)!
Errol -
I have the BN transfer coal to the RI in my QCA layout. In reality, today the BN (or the UP) transfers coal to the IMRL (now ICE) for Electrical Power plants in this area. My RI is a large regional RR in the 1990's, so does the work of the IMRL and Iowa Interstate (plus has passenger rail to an AMTRAK hub and to Omaha).
The point is, be as realistic (or not) as you like!! Deside on what and when you are, and go from there! Myself, I'm going to paint a F40PH black and put a blue "R" and white "THE ROCK" lettering on it! If the RI existed in the 90's, they would have got one to update their passenger equipment!
I see no problem with your RIL meeting the BN at, say, the Quad Cities (Bettendorf, Rock Island, Davenport, Moline) - or the C&NW at Sioux Falls. Go for it !!!
And have fun !!!
Shane -
My family was walking out the door as I hit the "submit" button ...I had to hurry, because there they went, and I was their leader !!!
- George
George,
Should we contact the ICC and ask to file for abbandment on the "Picking On The Little Guys" line and stop here for coffee and donuts?
The thread name is a little more fitting
I did get the Athern cars off Ebay Less than I was bidding too I'll let you know more when I get them.I've spent my limit this week but My mail box should make me happy this week.
Shane
PS I placed my vote on Yahoo for the DL109 So I'm half of the 4%
Should we contact the ICC and ask to file for abbandment on the "Picking On The Little Guys" line and stop here for coffee and donuts?
The thread name is a little more fitting
I did get the Athern cars off Ebay Less than I was bidding too
I'll let you know more when I get them.I've spent my limit this week but My mail box should make me happy this week. Shane
PS I placed my vote on Yahoo for the DL109 So I'm half of the 4%
Shane -
The "move" is ok with me!
Do we consider this a "hostile takeover" of Bobs thread ??!!
Congrats on the winning boxcar bid!
Glad you finally got onto the Yahoo site!
Not much consensus on needed RI locos, is there ??
The vote is all over the place!
I'm not big on the DL109 (as you might could tell from my small "war" on the forum site). The RI only had ONE loco, so it's gonna be hard for P2K, wanting TWO RNs for their models! They will call it a 109/107, I hope! That will give them a whopping THREE road numbers to choose from! I think there is more need for other RI models, myself, but each to their own! It IS an interesting design. But nowhere near the RI top 20!
I'm glad you voted, regardless !!!
The vote, so far (47 replies):
Choices Votes %
FP7A (rocket scheme) 3 6.38%
F7A (maroon w/ yellow wings) 3 6.38%
U28B (maroon w/wings) 1 2.13%
GP7 (Rock Blue) 5 10.64%
GP7 (Striped Maroon) 2 4.26%
LWT12 Aerotrain "Jet Rocket" 2 4.26%
Gp7 (Red & Yellow) 4 8.51%
H15-44 (Red & Black) 2 4.26%
C415 (Red & Yellow) 5 10.64%
RS3 (Striped maroon) 1 2.13%
TA Rocket set 2 4.26%
DL 109/107 2 4.26%
GP35 (maroon w/wings) 3 6.38%
E8A (maroon w/yellow wings) 2 4.26%
E8A (UP yellow) 1 2.13%
AB6 1 2.13%
GP40 (maroon w/wings) 0 0.00%
44-ton Davenport 3 6.38%
U30C (Red & Yellow) 5 10.64%
None of the above 0 0.00%
Later!
- George
PS I TRIED to put the above data into nice columns, but it didn't "take"!
The "move" is ok with me!
Do we consider this a "hostile takeover" of Bobs thread ??!!
Congrats on the winning boxcar bid!
Glad you finally got onto the Yahoo site!
Not much consensus on needed RI locos, is there ??
The vote is all over the place!
I'm not big on the DL109 (as you might could tell from my small "war" on the forum site). The RI only had ONE loco, so it's gonna be hard for P2K, wanting TWO RNs for their models! They will call it a 109/107, I hope! That will give them a whopping THREE road numbers to choose from! I think there is more need for other RI models, myself, but each to their own! It IS an interesting design. But nowhere near the RI top 20!
I'm glad you voted, regardless !!!
The vote, so far (47 replies):
Choices Votes %
FP7A (rocket scheme) 3 6.38%
F7A (maroon w/ yellow wings) 3 6.38%
U28B (maroon w/wings) 1 2.13%
GP7 (Rock Blue) 5 10.64%
GP7 (Striped Maroon) 2 4.26%
LWT12 Aerotrain "Jet Rocket" 2 4.26%
Gp7 (Red & Yellow) 4 8.51%
H15-44 (Red & Black) 2 4.26%
C415 (Red & Yellow) 5 10.64%
RS3 (Striped maroon) 1 2.13%
TA Rocket set 2 4.26%
DL 109/107 2 4.26%
GP35 (maroon w/wings) 3 6.38%
E8A (maroon w/yellow wings) 2 4.26%
E8A (UP yellow) 1 2.13%
AB6 1 2.13%
GP40 (maroon w/wings) 0 0.00%
44-ton Davenport 3 6.38%
U30C (Red & Yellow) 5 10.64%
None of the above 0 0.00%
Later!
- George
PS I TRIED to put the above data into nice columns, but it didn't "take"!
Geee, I miss out again!! , my RI boxcars are common or garden "Rocket Freight".
George, I had already got that map of the RI, it was the grey line to Sioux Falls that gave me hope. Even Omaha would have many flags running through it but on second thoughts I can't see me stockpiling coal or grain hoppers to the exclusion of all else. (I'm partial to black stock cars).
Why on eart did I only leave a 7' 6" x 2' space in my train room for N-gauge! I'll never forgive myself!
Errol
, my RI boxcars are common or garden "Rocket Freight".George, I had already got that map of the RI, it was the grey line to Sioux Falls that gave me hope. Even Omaha would have many flags running through it but on second thoughts I can't see me stockpiling coal or grain hoppers to the exclusion of all else. (I'm partial to black stock cars).
Why on eart did I only leave a 7' 6" x 2' space in my train room for N-gauge! I'll never forgive myself!
Errol
It can't be a hostile takeover of my thread as I'm for anything that kills that "Picking of the Little Guys" thread on the HO site
It has certainly taken on a life of it's own.
Actually, but volunterring to kill that thread saves me the time of figuring out a way to take over the N gauge site Tee Hee
Bob
It has certainly taken on a life of it's own.
Actually, but volunterring to kill that thread saves me the time of figuring out a way to take over the N gauge site
Tee HeeBob
Bob,
The "Picking on he little guys thread" only proves the The Rock Island was a big line.
Are you in any way shape or form part of the ICC?
LOOK-OUT HERE COME THE ROCK ISLAND WOO-WOOOO
Now we have more room to play.And soon we'll have more people.
If you dont mind me asking How come you didn't like the thread?It was only 10 pages long.
Errol,
Are you going to do the RI in N-scale? If you do then I'd go with Life-Like locos when the time comes to buy locos. I'm not saying anything bad about Atlas as they are great runners but the LL's are less costly.
Well I'm off to finish a spur track into my namless town.
Shane
The "Picking on he little guys thread" only proves the The Rock Island was a big line.
Are you in any way shape or form part of the ICC?
LOOK-OUT HERE COME THE ROCK ISLAND WOO-WOOOO
Now we have more room to play.And soon we'll have more people.
If you dont mind me asking How come you didn't like the thread?It was only 10 pages long.
Errol,
Are you going to do the RI in N-scale? If you do then I'd go with Life-Like locos when the time comes to buy locos. I'm not saying anything bad about Atlas as they are great runners but the LL's are less costly.
Well I'm off to finish a spur track into my namless town.
Shane
Just got an e-mail from my mail order company - the GP38-2's are **ON** **THEIR** **WAY** . . . . . . . .
Mike,
I'm glad your finaly getting your engines,I just got a CGW box car I won on Ebay last week.I know its not RI but with over 100 RI cars I think I should start getting other roads now,The RI just didn't haul RI cars so I thought it would be more prototypical.I also need more color for the trains.
Shane
I'm glad your finaly getting your engines,I just got a CGW box car I won on Ebay last week.I know its not RI but with over 100 RI cars I think I should start getting other roads now,The RI just didn't haul RI cars so I thought it would be more prototypical.I also need more color for the trains.
Shane
Shane;
Your comment about the RI being a mighty big line certainly begs the question... A mighty big line of WHAT
Bob
Your comment about the RI being a mighty big line certainly begs the question... A mighty big line of WHAT
Bob
The Rock Island line is ...
Bob -
"...a mighty FINE line..." - and "...the Road to ride" !
OR to MODEL !!!!!!!!
- George
Bob -
"...a mighty FINE line..." - and "...the Road to ride" !
OR to MODEL !!!!!!!!
- George
Bob,
During it's time the RI was one of the top three biggest rail roads in the USA .
The RI owned the most amout of 4-8-4 of all the rail roads.
The RI is just AWSOME.
If the RI was so bad then why did the UP want it so bad?The UP wooed the RI for years until the ICC said no.By then it was too late.The ICC should of let them join together.
It seems like all the major RR's ended up getting a little piece of THE ROCK.
What line do you model?
Shane
During it's time the RI was one of the top three biggest rail roads in the USA .
The RI owned the most amout of 4-8-4 of all the rail roads.
The RI is just AWSOME.
If the RI was so bad then why did the UP want it so bad?The UP wooed the RI for years until the ICC said no.By then it was too late.The ICC should of let them join together.
It seems like all the major RR's ended up getting a little piece of THE ROCK.
What line do you model?
Shane
Shane, et al;
As I sure you are aware, the UPRR wooed every railroad in mid-America that ran east and west at one time or another. They wanted a dedicated route into Chicago from Omaha initially and later either Omaha or Kansas City. I can recall them trying to work out the deal with the RI and the Milwaukee and eventually the C&NW. When the UPRR purchased the MOPAC they got their route to Chicago through St. Louis, They apparently actually wanted the C&NW first, but there was an operational problem that at the time seemed too costly to deal with. I'm sure there are some old timers on here that can tell you what that problem was if you aren't aware. I will if they don't
Bob
As I sure you are aware, the UPRR wooed every railroad in mid-America that ran east and west at one time or another. They wanted a dedicated route into Chicago from Omaha initially and later either Omaha or Kansas City. I can recall them trying to work out the deal with the RI and the Milwaukee and eventually the C&NW. When the UPRR purchased the MOPAC they got their route to Chicago through St. Louis, They apparently actually wanted the C&NW first, but there was an operational problem that at the time seemed too costly to deal with. I'm sure there are some old timers on here that can tell you what that problem was if you aren't aware. I will if they don't
Bob
Bob,
I'm willing to learn any thing I can about the RI.I do know that the UPRR had a lot invested in the RI.They bought 85 engines for the RI under a lease agreement.And almost 3000 assorted rolling stock mostly covered hoppers (1468).
When the RI shut down the UPRR took 76 engines and all thier rolling stock back.All the engines needed to have dynamic brakes and cab controls installed before they could run them on their mianlines.
I think that the UPRR wanted the RI because it was a big line and they had the financial backing to rebuild the line to what it once was.
Shane
I'm willing to learn any thing I can about the RI.I do know that the UPRR had a lot invested in the RI.They bought 85 engines for the RI under a lease agreement.And almost 3000 assorted rolling stock mostly covered hoppers (1468).
When the RI shut down the UPRR took 76 engines and all thier rolling stock back.All the engines needed to have dynamic brakes and cab controls installed before they could run them on their mianlines.
I think that the UPRR wanted the RI because it was a big line and they had the financial backing to rebuild the line to what it once was.
Shane
Your comments about the relationship between the RI and UPRR are interesting to me, particularly that about the large number of covered hoppers taken back by the UPRR.
I mentioned on another thread once that in the old RI yards in Council Bluffs, Iowa, long after the RI became history, there were a LARGE number of the RI blue covered hoppers that sat there for years and years. I don't think they are there anymore, but have been moved only within the last five years or so. This yard would have been an easy reach for the UPRR to use as it is probably less than two miles from their mainline hookup with the CNW and would have been an easy and central location to bring all of that rolling stock to one place.
Bob
I mentioned on another thread once that in the old RI yards in Council Bluffs, Iowa, long after the RI became history, there were a LARGE number of the RI blue covered hoppers that sat there for years and years. I don't think they are there anymore, but have been moved only within the last five years or so. This yard would have been an easy reach for the UPRR to use as it is probably less than two miles from their mainline hookup with the CNW and would have been an easy and central location to bring all of that rolling stock to one place.
Bob
Bob,
I think that the UPRR had more than a few million dollars tied up in the RI.The UPRR also took back over 900 box cars.
I don't know why the UPRR would invest so much in a failing railroad other than to sweeten the deal they wanted to make,The RI even had some of their E8's painted in UP yellow which didnt look bad.
I think that the two companies had an agreement that was never made public.I mean if I owned the UPRR and knew that the RI was going down I'd bail them out until I could merge with them.Then I'd "sub-divide" the two into two seperate lines,giving the commuter to the RI for a loss and keep the frieght for the gain.I'd also use the RI for frieght where the UPRR didn't already have a port.I'd also sell off what I couldn't use of the 218 engines and rolling stock.Then I'd start to rebuild the rails that where most benifical to both companies.But this is only my opion.
I get most of my information from old "Trains" magazines and from any thing else that has somthing to do with the RI.
Shane
I think that the UPRR had more than a few million dollars tied up in the RI.The UPRR also took back over 900 box cars.
I don't know why the UPRR would invest so much in a failing railroad other than to sweeten the deal they wanted to make,The RI even had some of their E8's painted in UP yellow which didnt look bad.
I think that the two companies had an agreement that was never made public.I mean if I owned the UPRR and knew that the RI was going down I'd bail them out until I could merge with them.Then I'd "sub-divide" the two into two seperate lines,giving the commuter to the RI for a loss and keep the frieght for the gain.I'd also use the RI for frieght where the UPRR didn't already have a port.I'd also sell off what I couldn't use of the 218 engines and rolling stock.Then I'd start to rebuild the rails that where most benifical to both companies.But this is only my opion.
I get most of my information from old "Trains" magazines and from any thing else that has somthing to do with the RI.
Shane
Shane;
I think you are certainly right on most points. I do think that the process was much more complicated than just the UPRR dealing with the RI. As I mentioned before, there were a lot of things all going on at the same time. I don't have the figures but my bet would be that at least in my part of the world there was more of the old RI abandoned or sold off than actually used by the UP. In the days all this was going on the Milwaukee was getting out of business in that same Omaha/Chicago corridor, the Burlington was going through what turned out to be the first of several mergers, the UP was buying the MOPAC, etc. When it was all shaken out you wind up with the BNSF and the UP/CNW being the major carriers still plying that east /west route that was the original bridge railroad from Omaha, the eastern terminus of the transcontinential railroad to Chicago the major point on the original expansion of the railroads west from the metropolitan centers of the east.
Oh, and by the way, no one else stepped in to tell about why the UPRR wasn't as interested in the CNW initially. The CNW is the left handed railroad, based on the English home of the man who built it. All the signalling, etc in on the "wrong" side!!
I think you are certainly right on most points. I do think that the process was much more complicated than just the UPRR dealing with the RI. As I mentioned before, there were a lot of things all going on at the same time. I don't have the figures but my bet would be that at least in my part of the world there was more of the old RI abandoned or sold off than actually used by the UP. In the days all this was going on the Milwaukee was getting out of business in that same Omaha/Chicago corridor, the Burlington was going through what turned out to be the first of several mergers, the UP was buying the MOPAC, etc. When it was all shaken out you wind up with the BNSF and the UP/CNW being the major carriers still plying that east /west route that was the original bridge railroad from Omaha, the eastern terminus of the transcontinential railroad to Chicago the major point on the original expansion of the railroads west from the metropolitan centers of the east.
Oh, and by the way, no one else stepped in to tell about why the UPRR wasn't as interested in the CNW initially. The CNW is the left handed railroad, based on the English home of the man who built it. All the signalling, etc in on the "wrong" side!!
rockislandmike's Academy of Business
Like most industries and the economic cycle itself, the railroads seem to go through phases - expand, consolidate and contract, expand.
The interesting question is - do these railroads really believe that merging will result in greater profits to their shareholders??? Or (1) are they just empire building; or (2) just worried their major competitor is gonna get that other smaller railroad down the way.
I could write an entire paper, nay, an entire book on this subject, I find it very interesting, especially how it seems to be the same in every major industry. But, in the interests of keeping my job and marriage in one piece . . . . . . . .
Like most industries and the economic cycle itself, the railroads seem to go through phases - expand, consolidate and contract, expand.
The interesting question is - do these railroads really believe that merging will result in greater profits to their shareholders??? Or (1) are they just empire building; or (2) just worried their major competitor is gonna get that other smaller railroad down the way.
I could write an entire paper, nay, an entire book on this subject, I find it very interesting, especially how it seems to be the same in every major industry. But, in the interests of keeping my job and marriage in one piece . . . . . . . .
Mike;
I think whether you write a paper or a book, or just choose to speculate you will eventually come up with the same answer and that is that both (1) and (2) are correct.
I would question whether or not anything the UPRR has done recently was for the benefit of their stockholders. I held a very small block of UPRR stock for a number of years and finally sold it as it just sat there, never increasing in value and producing basically no income. It went from hold to sell on the broker boards and my loyalty went out the window and I sold it.
I think it they held my feet to the fire for a single answer I would have to say market share, or fear of being squeezed out if they didn't do the squeezing themselves.
Bob
I think whether you write a paper or a book, or just choose to speculate you will eventually come up with the same answer and that is that both (1) and (2) are correct.
I would question whether or not anything the UPRR has done recently was for the benefit of their stockholders. I held a very small block of UPRR stock for a number of years and finally sold it as it just sat there, never increasing in value and producing basically no income. It went from hold to sell on the broker boards and my loyalty went out the window and I sold it.
I think it they held my feet to the fire for a single answer I would have to say market share, or fear of being squeezed out if they didn't do the squeezing themselves.
Bob