The On30 conspiracy

Tingoat,
Very nice indeed! The 2-6-6-2 I mentioned at the start of this will be done out of two of the Bachmann moguls. That's going to be a while down the line however, I have to finish the 2-8-2, and get some scotch..uhhh water, flowing on the diorama, and build several O scale trees first.

Catt,
Understand "next year". Re. module standards, 'Not only can we assimilate, but we can dictate terms! ":D :D :D
If someone shows up at Trainfest with On30 modules, I'll get some pics, and post'em.
Pete
 
NMRA On30 Module Standards and Recommended Practices...

Originally posted by Catt!
There are no set Module standards as such for On30 because there is no such modular organization like NTRAK for On30 yet. Each modular group has their own standards so far.On30 IMHO needs a set of modular standards.
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If this is true, then where did these come from???

NMRA On30 Module Standards and Recommended Practices.
 
Tingoat, and any other interested parties,, Model Power now owns Mantua, and will be retaining the 2-6-6-2. They say they're going to make some improvements, and try to lower the price, so this may become a good source for an articulated chassis for On30.
Pete
 
Garratts

Originally posted by sumpter250
Tingoat, and any other interested parties,, Model Power now owns Mantua, and will be retaining the 2-6-6-2. They say they're going to make some improvements, and try to lower the price, so this may become a good source for an articulated chassis for On30.
Pete
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Poor Mantua... I think that they owned for a short time in the 70's by Tyco? Tyco bought one of the model railroad companies and almost destroyed it before it managed to slip free and rebuild itself. I've got an old Tyco HO 0-4-0 that I got for X-mas one year. It seazed up on it's second lap around my layout and I was never able to revive it. Any of the Model Power HO trainsets that I have seen in the stores are very toy-like and cheap. I have heard that they also make some quality stuff, but I've never seen any.

Thanks, I'll have to keep this in mind. My passion for articulated motive power is leaning towards Garratts.

A Complete list of Garratt Locomotives

I've got a couple of HO 0-6-0's that are "awaiting their mating" to kitbash an On30 0-6-0+0-6-0 Garratt. If I can scrounge together some other parts, I'll try to make it an On30 4-6-2+2-6-4.
It will be a while before I get to this project....
 
Why not ask the 0n30 modular groups where those specs came from?Because nobody I know has had any imput into these specs.In fact most people don't even know they exist.


I have other thoughts about the NMRA but this ain't the place to bring them up.
 
FYI, standards........
One of the tightest narrow gauge curves was on the Uintah, at 66 degrees(on a 7.5% grade). In O scale, this is btweeen 22", and 24" radius. In HOn3, i run on 45 degree curves (18" radius), this would be 35" to 36" in O scale. An 18" radius in O scale is an 86 degree curve! even a shay might have problems with this!
Pete
 
Module Standards. (The Devil's Advoacate.)

Originally posted by Catt!
Why not ask the 0n30 modular groups where those specs came from? Because nobody I know has had any input into these specs. In fact most people don't even know they exist.

I have other thoughts about the NMRA but this ain't the place to bring them up.
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From what I can tell, there does not appear to be any one predominant On30 group. N Scale has the NTrack gang to set standards, but for On30 it tends to be a free for all....

It's not suprising, since many On30 modellers tend to be the rugged individualist type.

Since there wasn't and/or isn't any predominant On30 group to advise the NMRA, the NMRA is left to arbitrarily dictate standards.

I can't speak from direct experience... But it appears to me from some things I have read on other forums that the On30 Conspiracy is a group of flamewarriors and the like. It only takes one or two rotten apples to spoil the bunch, but to an On30 newbie, like myself, it is a little off putting.

At the same time... Some finescale modellers and rivit counters tend to look down their noses at On30 modellers for not following prototype. Afterall, D&RGW was 36" gage, not 30". There are so few examples of 30" gage railways in North America that they are not well documented and/or not worthy of attention. As much as I like and admire Bachmann for making entry into On30 affordable, they also perpetuate this perception by painting and lettering equipment for roads that were not 30".

This is a real shame... To me, On30 represents the ultimate outlet of creative energy. By not being bogged down with prototype, there is a lot more room for creativity and freelancing. On the other hand, it can be a real challenge for those that wish to persue prototype, because their work is really cut out for them when it comes research and reference.

Now if we could all just get along... ;)
 
Having been a member of the On30 Conspiracy for a little while I can testify to the fact that I have seen absolutely no Flame warriors at all. Rivet counters don't exist in this scale.(how do you count rivets on a 2' gauge car or loco built to 30" standards?)

Actually as far as standards are concerned HO track standards and On3 clearence standards should work just fine.But until such time as the various On30 modular groups agree on standards the NMRA is just simply blowing smoke over On30 .

Maybe there should be a modular group called On30TRAK established. :D :D What do you guys think of that idea??
 
This sounds reasonable to me, but you need a ticket to ride this train...

Originally posted by Catt!
Having been a member of the On30 Conspiracy for a little while I can testify to the fact that I have seen absolutely no Flame warriors at all. (how do you count rivets on a 2' gauge car or loco built to 30" standards?)
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I'm not sure about this one.... I think it is more of a case of 3' gauge cars and locos, riding on 30" gauge track. Many On30 modellers run On30 while pretending that it is 3' gauge. There were 30" gauge lines in North America. They were few and far between but they did exist. A lot of rolling stock and motive power was freelanced by the individual roads and there was very little standardization. They were usually industrial and or for logging. They are just not well documented. You can find Rivet Counters and Nit Pickers in every scale/gauge. There are several 30" lines in South America and in Africa as well as other places around the world. So prototypes do exist for those that look for them. It is interesting that Europeans and folks from Australia (For Example.) often model North American Railroads, but very few North Americans model any thing beyond our own shores.... I have started to research Sierra Leone Railroads since they combine the two things that I am interested in. 30" gauge and Garratts.

Originally posted by Catt! Actually as far as standards are concerned HO track standards and On3 clearence standards should work just fine. But until such time as the various On30 modular groups agree on standards the NMRA is just simply blowing smoke over On30 .
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Be that as it may.... If you look at the Standards that the NMRA has posted, it looks as though they have done what you suggest. Although On30 has been around for quit a while, I don't think that it has enjoyed the popularity that On3 has. I think that it has only been the last few years that it has taken off. Thanks in part to manufacturers like Bachmann for making entry into this obscure scale/gauge affordable. They are cashing in on an aging group of Baby Boomers. Modellers who already have an investment in HO, but due to aging eyes, find that O scale is easier to work with.

Originally posted by Catt! Maybe there should be a modular group called On30TRAK established. :D :D What do you guys think of that idea??
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I don't think that a new group needs to be formed. The On30 Conspiracy is already a large group that advocates On30. It just needs to formalize its membership, to bring a united front to the NMRA. There is strength in numbers. It is just a matter of organization to change it from being a mob to being a recognised and respected group. The downside of this is $$$. Dues would have to be collected and NMRA Membership would have to be paid.

You need a ticket to ride this train...
 
Actually the whole n30 thing came about as a way to make narrow gauge a little easier to do.It is much easier to do narrow gauge if you don't have to handlay all your track and turnouts but can use readily available components from a smaller scale.

Nn30 =z scale track
HOn30 =N scale track
On30 =HO track

of course now there are at least a dozen variants using other scale track to create new gauges such as On18 which uses N scale track to emulate mine and small industrial trackage(Nscale track at 9mm =18" in O scale). There were also plantation railroads that used this gauge.

My thoughts about On30TRAK comes from the fact that there are several modular groups that I know of in On30 and they not only do not use the NMRA specs ,but have no compatability to each others standards either.My intentions are the forming of an NTRAK type of group(modular) to establish a set of standards that anybody/eveybody can live with.

As for On30 modelers pretending the are modeling 3' railroads you can blame Bachmann for that since the railroad they based their On30 line for prototype is a 3 ' gauge railroad.

Most of the passengers cars on my On30 layout will be based on the Sandy River & Rangly Lakes RR which is a two footer but my railroad is a three footer set in very modern times.

That really is the fun part of On30, you can model the gauge you want it to be.:D :D :D

By the way AHM actually got HOn30 started in this country but it was called Hoe then. I believe it still is in Europe.
 
Aside from a friendly "push" or two, what got me started in On30 was, it's a different scale than I've been in for so long, and, because there really weren't many 30" gauge railroads, it's easier for me to freelance. I have enjoyed, and still do, working in HOn3. Some day I'll have a space big enough to build an HOn3 layout modeling the Sumpter Valley Railway, 1939-1947, when the 250, and the 251, the largest narrow gauge locos in the U.S. were active.( Yes, I have both the engines.) In the meantime, The Sag Harbor Shipbuilding & Drydock Co. will have to suffice.
Interesting, Catt, that you should choose Sandy River & Rangely Lakes. I've decided to set my On30 in roughly that same area. It'll be the Wiscasset Bucksport & Schoodic Point, and will exist mainly to haul milled lumber to market.( Kinda like the SVRY)
I was at the local Hobby shop yesterday, and they had two On30 coaches at 50%off, so I now have material for lengthening some coaches, and maybe even a few windows left over to do a "Drovers caboose",or combination caboose.
Work progresses on the 2-8-2. The coal boards are done, the electrical rewiring is done, and the backhead is in place, needing detail. I got the frame extension (under the cab) in, and trailing truck equalizer, and ashpan detail done. I have decided to scratchbuild a new air pump, and complete the air piping next.
I have the material for the retaining walls to complete the trestle on the diorama, and once that's done, scenery can be started. (maybe a willlow tree would be easier in O scale).
I'll get some new photos taken and post'em.
Pete
 
This Horse ain't dead yet... Floggin' NMRA On30 Module St&RP's

I have it on good authority that the On30 Module Standards and Recommended Practices were not designed by Machiavellian Dictators. :D

Quoting from INTRODUCTION TO MODULE STANDARDS & RECOMMENDED PRACTICES - NMRA Bulletin March 1990 -

These standards and RPs have been assembled from data sent in from module groups that are actively building and operating these units in all parts of the country..... ~

NMRA SIGs

Within the NMRA there are many Special Interest Groups (SIG). Among them are modular groups for each scale and they have much to offer the builder in the way of data and information. These groups are listed from time to time in the BULLETIN. It is suggested that the newcomer to module building study the Standards, RPs, and Data Sheets of both NMRA and the SIG. Before starting it would be useful to attend a meet where modules are set up and operating and discuss the pros and cons of both module types and then decide which type best suits your goals. Good preparation will reduce the number of problems when interfacing your module with others for the first time. There are often small adjustments to be made out if care is taken and proper planning is done, these can be kept to a minor nature.

We are most grateful to NTRAK for the courtesy of using some of their drawings which have evolved from more than 15 years of successful construction and operation. The basic methods of construction are applicable to the other scales. Only the cimensions need be changed. In the case of 0 scale, 1" x 6" side panels are suggested due to the increased weight of the models which will be used in the operation. Data Sheets will show how other groups differed in some of the construction details so it is advisable to study all available material, choosing chose most suitable to your own particular needs or desires. Scales larger than 0 should use suitable larger side panels according to the weight they are expected to carry. The engineering committee is always ready to help those in need, with suggestions as to the way to approach a problem area.

Electrical Standards may differ with each scale. Check the SIG, of your scale.
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Quoting Roger P. Hensley
All of the Module Standards and RPs stemed from working with the original NTrak St&RPs. They were then worked over by a committee way back when and modified by testing trial and error and submitted for comments, modified and resubmitted to the membership for a vote. Each section was voted on by members modeling in that area OR members affected by modules St&RPs. Nothing is ever arbitrary. The affected members decide.

There weren't any (On30 Module) groups to speak of when these were proposed and originally passed. The purpose of the NMRA is and has always been to standardize the hobby for the purpose of interchange of equipment and track.
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The NMRA welcomes input and discussion on all aspects of the hobby. They lead, and the rest of us can choose to follow or not as we desire.

Just because the NMRA has set out Standards and Recommended Practices, doesn't mean that any individual or group has to follow them. Any group or individual is welcome to set their own standards.

What I don't need to do is re-invent the wheel. If I can find On30 Modellers in my area that already have modules, then I will be inclined to follow their lead. If I find On30 Modellers or other interested parties in my area that would like to start making Modules, then the NMRA Standards and Recommended Practices make a good starting point.

By having the NMRA provide these guidlines, anyone, anywhere in the world can log on to the NMRA Website, follow the suggestions and be able to mate up their module with others and have it work.

This seems to me to be a good thing.
 
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