B5 - Project Centauri Vorchan
- Thread starter Sky Seeker
- Start date
That's the problem with dealing with different systems...but since I have just about everything there is..or the ability to convert to something else I got no problem in doing so...
Sketchup I like for some things..and you can do some really great stuff with it ONCE you understand it fully!
I have never tried metasequoia as I saw no reason to back track to it from Autocad / 3dStudio and beyond...
I will try to just upload a screen capture from now on...unless like the last...which was a straight to .svg file from selected mesh scaled to an a4 sheet, then I will use a pdf... OK?
...PS.. I don't want anyone to have to go out and get any new software to look at something...if they want to learn some piece of software ..that's a different thread!
I'm still waiting for Pixar, tempted to abandon non-VR sculpting and get a set up for a lightwave type cad program. that's a year of work for sure.
Maybe go the other way and settle on paper mache' unique pieces.
I'm not really sure.
A 3d printer is 400 bucks with filaments, an xbox or whatever is 200 bucks with a couple of games I like, and a new desktop that could actually run a decent cad program would be 1,800 bucks.
Won't even begin to purchase until April 2017.
These little drone toys are real tempting to just put a paper model of something hanging a few feet down from the X shaped drone and fly those around this spring.
Well anyway, like I said, I am very interested on how you work this part out. It's very interesting!
Maybe go the other way and settle on paper mache' unique pieces.
I'm not really sure.
A 3d printer is 400 bucks with filaments, an xbox or whatever is 200 bucks with a couple of games I like, and a new desktop that could actually run a decent cad program would be 1,800 bucks.
Won't even begin to purchase until April 2017.
These little drone toys are real tempting to just put a paper model of something hanging a few feet down from the X shaped drone and fly those around this spring.
Well anyway, like I said, I am very interested on how you work this part out. It's very interesting!
well I guess I have to look into the software. so far I haven't found anything that wont require a large investment and software that will need upgrades constantly. Pixar said that they were going to release their software, but it is still on hold, if they are going to at all. I suppose I need to schmooze some people who might have connections. at this time tho, I have no one that isn't too busy or just plain not interested. phoenix has a fine college, so I thought next spring I might try a few years if they have openings.
UPDATE:
Been working ...actually learning some new tricks and software with Zathros help..so that this thing will be better than just acceptable. In the meantime still working on the original mesh as everything is interchangeable...after many different tries, decided to basically do a rebuild of the Vorchan Head mesh, it looked good, but would never go to the general paper modeler. Not to many folks out there would be willing to cut segments that resembled cat whiskers and try to fold and bend them and try to glue them into a solid! So re-designed the whole thing and eliminated most of the small stuff, while trying to keep the over all feeling of the original...also eliminated the undulating insert along the side..for same reason... this now gives more options to add the detail of the side inserts..either a single sheet folded and glued in or a sheet glued to the back and U-shaped sections added to it...?? will see...lots still depend as not even thought as yet on attachment to main hull....
Same problem with horizontal and vertical wings... for some reason all the cut and folds tend to be on one side of each wing..when it should be equal.../ mirrored...so may have to do as I have with the head..and cut in half..fix one side /copy/past/mirror...and see it it works better!
here is a pix of the refined/simplified mesh of the Vorchan...
Been working ...actually learning some new tricks and software with Zathros help..so that this thing will be better than just acceptable. In the meantime still working on the original mesh as everything is interchangeable...after many different tries, decided to basically do a rebuild of the Vorchan Head mesh, it looked good, but would never go to the general paper modeler. Not to many folks out there would be willing to cut segments that resembled cat whiskers and try to fold and bend them and try to glue them into a solid! So re-designed the whole thing and eliminated most of the small stuff, while trying to keep the over all feeling of the original...also eliminated the undulating insert along the side..for same reason... this now gives more options to add the detail of the side inserts..either a single sheet folded and glued in or a sheet glued to the back and U-shaped sections added to it...?? will see...lots still depend as not even thought as yet on attachment to main hull....
Same problem with horizontal and vertical wings... for some reason all the cut and folds tend to be on one side of each wing..when it should be equal.../ mirrored...so may have to do as I have with the head..and cut in half..fix one side /copy/past/mirror...and see it it works better!
here is a pix of the refined/simplified mesh of the Vorchan...
It seems to be quite a challeng to think it all out. Very interresting stuff for me to watch designer in work. Looking forward to next progres.
. Looking forward to next progres.
I'm happy you understood what I was trying to say, I wasn't too sure I did!!
I don't have enough experience ..flattening these things...I can create them...but exploding and flattening ...not so much...so everything that was a hindrance to that end....going going ...gone!! The original inserts and sides of this was a undulating "S" curve...and I certainly was not going to get it to unfold any time soon...so the best thing to do...cut the sides..use straight lines...and it still looks a lot like the original that it should work well!! and be easy to build...as soon as it gets flattened that is!!
UPDATE: 1st test fit of rework and rest of mesh...LOOKS GOOD...or at least there is not things all out of alignment! or missing!..Get all the hard stuff out of the way...and we should be moving right along...maybe by Christmas...of course I am not going to say what year as yet! Having trouble getting pix to upload so will edit one of head and joining bits together when I can...
Having trouble getting pix to upload so will edit one of head and joining bits together when I can...
UPDATE: 1st test fit of rework and rest of mesh...LOOKS GOOD...or at least there is not things all out of alignment! or missing!..Get all the hard stuff out of the way...and we should be moving right along...maybe by Christmas...of course I am not going to say what year as yet!
Gandolf,
I know what you mean about the head with the "S" curve. Still I think it would be do-able, but difficult. The printed bends, by the time you were done messing with them, would probably not look so good. The gaps on the sides should probably be gold. The front of the nose also has a gold teardrop with a gold dot above it like the vertical stabilizers.
Thanks also for taking an interest in this project. I have been watching the original series and season 5 has the best shots of the Vorchan.
Sky Seeker
:tank:
- Apr 5, 2013
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Just so you know, I have had a very positive tentative from the creator of the Meshes to use them, and an extremely kind compliment from him about this forum!! Just make sure you include the credit he asked you to when you downloaded it, include it when you complete the model. It should be at the start of the model, and very visible.
Test build main wing.
Here's the main wing (i.e. pita pocket):
One of the wings have tabs and the other side does not. Also, tried to experiment with forming the engines from the existing cardstock around the engine areas (see below). I don't think that it worked too well and recommend that separate engine constructions be made by inserting from the front to the back. This would give a more round shape to the back.
In constructing the wing, you start by gluing the center tab of the tabbed wing to the non tab wing
Next, you glue the tabs from one side of the wing working form the center to the outer most portion of the wing.
Reate what you did above to the other side. Back side of the wing. Note the tabs at the back.
Top view. Both sides joined together. Recommend making dashed line marks at the front for placement of the front struts, engine nacelles (on either side of the top vertical stabilizer), as well as lines for the top and bottom vertical stabilizers.
Inside view joined together. Note the inside tabs.
1st left engine joined.
Engines have been colored in with a highlighter. The side portions form triangular pieces instead of rounded more oval shaped sides on either sides of the engines.
That's it for now.
Sky Seeker
:tank:
Here's the main wing (i.e. pita pocket):
One of the wings have tabs and the other side does not. Also, tried to experiment with forming the engines from the existing cardstock around the engine areas (see below). I don't think that it worked too well and recommend that separate engine constructions be made by inserting from the front to the back. This would give a more round shape to the back.
In constructing the wing, you start by gluing the center tab of the tabbed wing to the non tab wing
Next, you glue the tabs from one side of the wing working form the center to the outer most portion of the wing.
Reate what you did above to the other side. Back side of the wing. Note the tabs at the back.
Top view. Both sides joined together. Recommend making dashed line marks at the front for placement of the front struts, engine nacelles (on either side of the top vertical stabilizer), as well as lines for the top and bottom vertical stabilizers.
Inside view joined together. Note the inside tabs.
1st left engine joined.
Engines have been colored in with a highlighter. The side portions form triangular pieces instead of rounded more oval shaped sides on either sides of the engines.
That's it for now.
Sky Seeker
:tank:
For those that are curious (the information is for those of us with the DVD's):
Babylon 5
Darkness Ascending
Season 5 Episode 15 (s5E15) - 30:06 - 31:09 - Vorchan front view ; 30:28 - close up shot; 36:06-37:06 ; 36:58 - back engine nacelle shot
All My Dreams Torn Assunder - S5E16 - 33:18 - 34:01
S5E17 - :38-1:17
Information for a later design of the Narn transport:
S5E19 - 00:01 - 00:15
Objects in Motion - S5E20 - 30:03 - 32:04 - G'Kar Transport
Sky Seeker
:tank:
Babylon 5
Darkness Ascending
Season 5 Episode 15 (s5E15) - 30:06 - 31:09 - Vorchan front view ; 30:28 - close up shot; 36:06-37:06 ; 36:58 - back engine nacelle shot
All My Dreams Torn Assunder - S5E16 - 33:18 - 34:01
S5E17 - :38-1:17
Information for a later design of the Narn transport:
S5E19 - 00:01 - 00:15
Objects in Motion - S5E20 - 30:03 - 32:04 - G'Kar Transport
Sky Seeker
:tank:
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Gandolf,
While watching the DVDs your interpretation of this is spot on! The gold side sections on the sides are flat and recessed while joined to the flat horizontal sides - like you've done. Great job!
Sky Seeker
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For those that are curious:
Here's an image of various Centauri ships to scale.
I think that the scale of the Primus to the Vorchan is a bit out of whack and should be revised. In the show it dwarfed the Vorchan.
Additionally, I was checking the scale of the Vorchan to the Omega Destroyer.
After checking the wing construction with the information above, Gandolf's wing design is comparable to Jaybat's Omega Destroyer. Of course if one tried to build a Primus to scale, that would be a BIG ship.
Sky Seeker
:tank:
Here's an image of various Centauri ships to scale.
I think that the scale of the Primus to the Vorchan is a bit out of whack and should be revised. In the show it dwarfed the Vorchan.
Additionally, I was checking the scale of the Vorchan to the Omega Destroyer.
After checking the wing construction with the information above, Gandolf's wing design is comparable to Jaybat's Omega Destroyer. Of course if one tried to build a Primus to scale, that would be a BIG ship.
Sky Seeker
:tank:
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Nice job... but don't waste too much time on it as it will be scrapped in the final version...as it was only a test to see how to best unfold the beast...and weather or not to cut the thing into "Pie Wedges" or not..which I still have not decided.." I would rather not!" but just for info...the dotted lines around the perimeter of the edge ..are actually fold lines...they would have to be lightly scored and slightly bent to the inside..the shells glued together and then with a rounded tool of some sort..the inside burnished to bring out the full roundness of the of the back edge..then that would eliminate the triangle at the inside of where the engine joins in...
I was looking at another project that was a lot simpler basically boxes stacked together but a massive build...and that project took 3 years...so I feel a bit better about not having much as yet...anything that shows up here is for viewing pleasure only..or just for fun...or views of a test build when it gets to that stage...don't want people getting upset when they spend time on something and then find out it was a test! I won't release anything to the public for this build till it is really finished... and the way it looks now it may be in stages of 20 or so releases../ pdf's ...will have to see....
I don't know how I got the sides right..as I have never seen the show ( I know , I should at least take a look at the ship from it!) Will do!
Thanks for the scale info!! not sure we will be able to use it...as model is limited by what will fit on paper with out hacking it up too much..and still make it as big as possible...for now I am not even thinking about scale ( but now I have access to it!!) and figuring that the front head will be a full page A4 3-4" long in proportion to width and see what that does with the rest...as for the wings..they have a natural break down the center horizontal and vertical and so can be easily split into 4 sections as a start...the rest..a series of boxes..not a real problem...
Glad to see the shot from the show..I really had a problem with the original textures ...that purple and orange with black lines had to go, needed something a bit more realistic!!
Exploded Vorchan ... Junkyard tearing everything apart and seeing what can be used and what needs to go and what needs to be re-worked for paper! ( There are a TON of bits in this thing!!)...and it is like floating around in space searching ! Looking at this...3 years may not be enough time...
2 splayed turkey's in r-rear are 1'st test flat od Vorchan head without reworking, just as you see here..since..I have re vamped it and cut it into 12 pieces...that should flatten ..Way better!!
to be continued....
Gandolf,
The scale of the wings right now is perfect! For a bigger model I agree with your build strategy. The main wings set the scale and most everything else is built off of them. From building the test model wings, yes the dotted lines in the back make sense for rolling the back. The solid lines are great for figuring out where to put the tabs for assembly purposes. At least once the build was started it helped me out in how the curves went. I know most people on the site don't like tabs, but in this case (especially on the inside) I thought it was essential for construction. The engine assembly though is what sets how rounded the back will go. Once the round portions go in everything else about the back follows. The way the back around the engine is constructed right now is VERY strong. I have difficulty crushing it between two fingers. So the construction is sound.
I think that right now for design purposes there could be 3 design phases of this project. Phase one a rough pepkura (which you have already done), phase two - moderately detailed ship with few parts to give an overall feel and shape with printed surface textures to permit greebling by individual modelers later on, and phase 3 a full detailed Vorchan with all the bells and whistles (the "perfect" model). Phase 2 should focus on the basic parts of the ship as well as basic construction. I'm thinking something that maybe someone with a moderate skill can build. This could set up the construction for phase 3, once basic construction is known, then providing a very high detailed model is the next logical step.
Textures from the original pepakura extraction I believe are just fine. I'll probably cut and paste the textures for the wing that you've supplied and see what shakes loose. The look is roughly a bunch of purple plates welded together and slightly overlapped to give a construction finish. The coloration looks to be variations on purple to magenta to maybe a slight pink with gold for the insignia to gold orangish for the trim (just guessing) .
Body build - the area that closes the front of the wings with the wing turrets should probably be left open for the main center section to be inserted within. The nacelles to the left and right of the main body could be one piece with various surface textures and then joined to the main body. The pieces on the far right had side (in the picture you provided from above) could be split in half and mounted on the main body with the nacelles sliding in between those sections on both sides.
In constructing that front piece (or main plate) that closes off the front of the wing a main plate could be formed with the holes cut out, then the boxes could be attached to the back of the plate, and then the plate assembly is glued in place to the main wing. The turrets are added later to make sure that they are aligned right.
The main body would have the main rectangular portion joined to a smaller trapezoidal portion in front which is then connected to a small rectangular portion that is fitted within the front nose portion (which you've just finished designing) for reinforcement and added strength to the model. From that construction the pieces on the sides where the nacelles would be slid into would be added (can we call them the engine pods?). This would limit the amount of the main center section to be put into the model. Additional details can be added to the engine pods and the sides of the main body. The main body with the additional parts attached can be slid into the main wing through the main front plate. Once that is done the nacelles are connected to the model to join the main body to the main plate and to provide additional joining strength between the main wing and the main body.
Once all of that is done the upper and lower vertical stabilizers can be added, then the upper engine pods on either side of the upper wing are added as well as other details that need to be done.
This is just my perspective on what could be done. I don't think that 3 years need to be taken on phase 2. Just an opinion. Also, phase 2 might inspire others to get into the project. Phase 2 is not meant for perfection it's meant for conceptual design and inspiration.
One other note, in the show the only portion of the ship that actually shoots is the main turret on the main body. Don't know why that's what I saw. FYI.
I'll try to see if I can post some images of what I'm talking about later.
Here's some links for videos of the Vorchan in action.
This really shows the detail of the Vorchan. It's from season 5 of B5.
Here's a link for some inspirational music - Rush - Mission from the album Hold Your Fire
That's it for now. I really appreciate someone of your caliber on this project. Thanks for taking the time to work on this.
Sky Seeker
:tank:
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Gonna have to read and re-read this..but for now...90% in agreement.... mostly I was thinking along the lines of ...( Since I have to do it to flatten and create anyway ) ...main / basic out of the box / easy version.... and include the pages or segments with Detailed version .... as it will have to be broken down to multiple pdf's just due to my stuff I am doing... and I will, as it looks now, I will not be using Pepakura, and also paint after flattened, so that is another thing I have to work around... for what you want to do for now.don't use the original dinky texture files in first models... here...try these...
last is a general hull plate texture and then the colored ones transparent over....
for the rest..just one piece at a time ...then from the inside out....
lots of cutting and re-working...and calculations to do...as each part is a complete ( box?) fitted into another, and they need to be cut / fitted to be buildable in the real world!! ackk !!
