# Who will rise to this challenge??

Discussion in 'Track Planning' started by iis612, Oct 1, 2007.

1. ### iis612Member

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Fred,
You have certainly given me a lot to think about. Alot of the items you discussed I had paid no mind to.
Begining with the height, you are right. The upper deck needs to be at least 54".
I had intended to vary the deck depths at 30" upper, and 36" lower (I have a long reach).
As to the consist length, I had not gone so far as to think about it in linear feet before. 24' is a lot longer than I really need, even though I prefer trains to be closer to prototypical length.
I am going to have to re-consider this project, as I have gone the paper and pencil route, using Armstrong's "Sketch by the squares" method, and I am yet to come up with a decent benchwork pattern.

Matt
2. ### pgandwActive Member

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On your consist length - a trick that might help. Iain Rice's opinion is that a train appears long, no matter how many cars it has or doesn't have, when both ends of the train are out of sight. For normal viewing distances, this equates to about a 13ft train on straight track, regardless of scale. If you are viewing from closer than 24" or so, you can reduce the 13ft. Gently curving the track around you, and obstructing views here and there, also reduces the 13ft requirement, which is based on limits of peripheral vision.

Another planning factor for a layout - many folks do not like a train to be in more than 1 "town" at the same time. This means on most dough nut or around-the-walls style layouts, the normal long train length should not be more than the length of the shortest wall minus the space for the turning curves. And ideally the next town in the train's path should not be on the next wall, but skip a wall. On smaller around-the-walls layouts, towns typically have to extend to parts of 2 walls to get an adequately long passing track.

just some other thoughts
3. ### TriplexActive Member

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A lesson I learned from years of track planning. Center passing tracks on corners of an around-the-walls layout, or wrap them around the end curves on an island or peninsula. This isn't hard-and-fast, but it's better as a starting point than to fit them entirely on straight sections.
Look at layouts at shows - HO layouts only, in your case. See what sort of train length looks right in real life (real modelling, that is).
4. ### iis612Member

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After some thought, I am thinking that the benchwork is going to be between 48" and 60", with a double sided backdrop. I am yet to figure out how I am going to handle the helix, or it's location. Nor have I figured out how to attack the ends of the peninsulas, as they will cleary need to be at least 72".
I will work out some sketches tonight after work and post them. If anyone has any ideas, I would love to see them as I can't seem to articulate my desires very well.

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6. ### pgandwActive Member

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Russ

You forgot to multiply the diameter by Pi (3.14) to get cicumference (or the run). Actual grade with a helix using 30" radius and 4" per turn rise is 2.12% - pretty reasonable.
7. ### iis612Member

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2.xx% is doable with a MU consist.
8. ### iis612Member

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I failed to mention the addition of a new industry. GERN will be expanding it's operations to include a distribution facility in Saginaw, MI.
This will be placed where I had originally intended to place the barge transload. It will include barge traffic though.
9. ### iis612Member

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Thank you everyone for your input.

The hidden staging will get changed so that it is one staging area with a through main for continuous running. Thus killing the p2p idea. This should free up some space.
I am having trouble running Xtrk and Atlas.:curse: I am not sure what has happened to them. Xtrk gives me some goofy error message, or locks up my computer wall1(depending on my computers mood, I guess).

As soon as I can I will post the paper plans that I have drawn.
10. ### baldwinjlMember

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What's going on with XtrkCad? Post the message, we might be able to help. What are you doing when it locks up?

Jeff
11. ### Russ BellinisActive Member

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Thanks Fred, I thought I might be missing something.
12. ### iis612Member

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The message was a windows message something about error #XXX (because I don't remember the number)
At any rate, in the last several tries to open Xtrk all it does is lock up the pc.
I usually have no other programs open, and it locks up on start-up. (with the exception of the programs that exist in the background or system tray).

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