Prepairing to begin again

Discussion in 'Track Planning' started by LoudMusic, Oct 7, 2006.

  1. MasonJar

    MasonJar It's not rocket surgery

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    LM,

    I would not be afraid to ask outright for the contact info... or you could always leave your name and number for him to pick up. Some one who is that big of a supporter of a given scale is most likely happy to welcome a new recruit! :D

    Andrew
  2. n2trains

    n2trains Member

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    without reading any of the other replies, here's what comes to mind:

    I have found that N scale is quite the productive switch. Even at ~$200/month, it's quite feasible. I mean, benchwork for a moderately sized layout shouldn't cost more than 70ish dollars. I know that I put together a layout with mostly free lumber from Home Depot (the lumber the REAL lumber comes mounted on/in), just go down there and look under the stacks of wood under the metal that holds them up, you'll see the 2x4s that I'm talking about. Though some are kind of screwed up and warped, you'll find a fair amount of fair+ conditioned wood that will quite easily hold up your layout without any worry whatsoever! When my friend showed me that, I went down there and picked up 25-30 pieces in one day. Go down there once per week and you got 120ish pieces in a month that you can cut to length, etc. Some are square though, but you could probably work around that (I know I did, since I was 17-18 at the time hehe). Either way, without spending any money on benchwork, or even $50 per month on it, that leaves $150 for the basics: track, locos, rolling stock (in that order of course, until you have enough power to go with your layout-variable depending on size). Hope the little bit of info I've provided helps :) good luck! let me know if you need any other corner cutting suggestions, I'm sure I've got a few I"m not thinking of (had to bust out a number of them when I had an income of $0... though not like that's different right now hehe)
  3. gottaBreal

    gottaBreal Member

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  4. gottaBreal

    gottaBreal Member

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    There ya go mang.....No sidings have been put in....Just your mainline and your staging area. The center island has a loads in emptys out area which u can use for some fun ore trains. You could even have these both be dead end spurs with switching going on in there. Good luck sir.
  5. LoudMusic

    LoudMusic Member

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    Yeah, no hole in the wall, but did you see how I got a reversing loop in the closet doorway? I think we could hybrid the two concept layouts together effectively.

    My initial reaction to the center penninsula was, "Ten inch radius. That's cute." But then I started thinking about it and had a pretty cool realization.

    Keeping a section like that as a siding, not part of a mainline-loop, a larger 2-6-0 could drag a train of two axel cars into the facility, uncouple, and run-around the train back to the mainline. Then a smaller two axel yard engine could push the train through the tight curve. Actually prototypical but I hadn't really thought much about it. Usually a "minimum radius" for a layout is the minimum of the most picky unit. Which in my case was looking like a 20" radius restricted locomotive. But heck, there are ore cars and mini steam locos that can go all the way down to SIX INCHES.

    Definitely something I'll need to examine more closely. Thanks for the work :)
  6. Triplex

    Triplex Active Member

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    Wow. I never dreamed of orienting a loads/empties connection like that.
  7. sumpter250

    sumpter250 multiscale modelbuilder

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    That makes for some interesting operation. The road loco can't operate in that area, forcing a small switcher to work the job. :cool: :cool:
  8. LoudMusic

    LoudMusic Member

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    So riddle me this ... what are the benefits of On30 over an HO narrow gauge, like HOn3 or HOn30? Do either of those scale / gauge combos run on readily available and inexpensive track like N scale track? And is there a decent supply of locomotives and rolling stock kits? Or is the difference between HOn30 and On30 the same as HO and N, with smaller selection, fewer kits (more RTR), and more out of scale issues?

    Don't freak out On30 guys. I'm not giving up on you yet - just exploring my options ;)
  9. pgandw

    pgandw Active Member

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    HOn30 is similar to On30 in that it uses the track of a smaller gauge (N) to represent narrow gauge. Small N mechanisms are usually used as the basis for HOn30 locomotives.

    HOn3 is a separate gauge unto itself (10.5mm vs 9mm for HOn30), accurately modeling 3ft gauge prototype in HO scale. While some N gauge mechanisms can be widened, and some HO mechanisms narrowed, those modeling in HOn3 tend to use mostly locomotives specifically made for HOn3. There are a few geared locomotives that were made in both HOn3 and HO, as was the prototype. The Roundhouse Shay is an example. The Keystone Shay was/is made in all 3 gauges - HO, HOn3, HOn30.

    Because for many years HOn2 (would be 7mm gauge) was deemed to be impractical, HOn30 is often used to represent 2ft gauge prototypes. There were very few common carrier 30 inch gauge prototypes; 3ft gauge dominated the choice of narrow gauges, with 2ft gauge being next most commonly used. Or due to the use of N mechanisms, free-lance (realistic could have been) models are made.

    On the other hand, when Bachmann came out with its line of On30, it chose to use 3ft gauge prototypes for its models, with the gauge narrowed to run on HO track. This being the case, some On3 modelers widen the gauge of the Bachmann equipment to run on true On3 track. There are those who model 2ft models in O scale (On2) using 1/2" gauge in 1/4" scale.


    There is commercial flex track available in On3, On30, HOn3, HOn30. Turnout selection is more limited in the n3 gauges, but because the n30 gauges use HO and N gauge, no problem there. There are 2 brands of pre-made commercial turnouts in HOn3 - MicroEngineering and Shinohara. There are numerous brands of kits and custom turnouts as well.

    The real issue, depending on the modeler, is the lack of RTR locomotives in any narrow gauge but On30. On30 has quite a variety to choose from. HOn3 has but three RTR non-brass locos at present - the Blackstone K27, the Concor Goose, and a free-lanced vehicle similar to a Goose. There is an active used brass market for HOn3. Available loco kits include the aforementioned Shays, Roundhouse 2-8-0s in inside and outside frame versions, Grandt's tiny diesel, and an unusual cab forward 4-4-0 used by the NPC. The Roundhouse kits are out of production but regularly show up on eBay.

    There are loads of car kits in HOn3 in plastic, metal, resin, and wood. Very few kits are Athearn BB style shake-the-box; many require several hours to assemble.

    I can't tell you much about Hon30 locos or rolling stock because I haven't sought it out. Roco does make a line of RTR.

    Both HOn3 and HOn30 have plenty of structure kits and details to choose from (more than On30), as all the older prototype standard gauge HO stuff is useable. HOn3 cars are about 60% the size of On30. A model of a 28ft car is just over 4" long in HOn3, and just over 7" in On30. Microtrains N couplers are accurate scale size for HOn3, they and fine-scale wheels are sometimes used in HOn3 for greater realism.

    my thoughts, your choices
  10. LoudMusic

    LoudMusic Member

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    Wow, good information. Thanks for the help. With this I think I'll continue to seek On30. But I need to see a picture of that cab-forward 4-4-0 just for grins. It sounds very intruiging!

    EDIT: Found it! For anyone who is interested ...

    [​IMG]

    That's really something to look at.
  11. sumpter250

    sumpter250 multiscale modelbuilder

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    One of the big attractions of 30" gauge is that it wasn't as well represented as the other narrow gauges, (3', 2', 42",) and lends itself to a lot more creativity. HOn30, and On30 both, provide the same freedom. There is more ready to run in On30, but either has about the same kitbashing possibilities. Remember O, is 8 times the volume of HO. a 2" X 2" X 2"(8 cubic inches) item in HO is 4" X 4" X 4"( 64 cubic inches) in O. You really notice this when you start building scenery, the Woodland Scenics stuff gets used up really fast.
  12. LoudMusic

    LoudMusic Member

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    Oh I don't know that having sufficient prototypes to replicate would really hold back my creative (sloppy?) modelling style in any scale or gauge :)

    About the scenery supply, would you say that, considering a fixed layout space regardless of scale, two different scales require different quantities of scenery? Would O scale use significantly more Woodland Scenics Blended Turf T49 than an N scale layout occupying the same square footage? Or would it be the other way around with the smaller scale using more due to more apparent openness in the landscape than the larger scale with tighter constraints due to larger trackage and buildings?

    I don't know that this really has any bearing on my layout choices, but again, it sure is fun to talk about! :)
  13. sumpter250

    sumpter250 multiscale modelbuilder

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    I really did mean "cubic" inches, couldn't let that stand. ( My brain's "software" experienced a fatal exception, and had to restart :D :D :D )
    No, a 4' X 8' layout, whether in Z, or G is still 32 "square" feet, and will take about the same amount of "turf". What changes with scale, is height, and therefore "cubic" inches.
  14. fsm1000

    fsm1000 Member

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    LoudMusic, pop over to my site and see what you can do with On30 in a small space. Also go to the links section and see what others have done. Lots of exceptional work being done out there. I hope it helps you decide.

  15. MasonJar

    MasonJar It's not rocket surgery

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    Let's call it... eccentric sign1

    Andrew
  16. LoudMusic

    LoudMusic Member

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    Hey that's a good word. Doesn't make me sound old, does it?
  17. MasonJar

    MasonJar It's not rocket surgery

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    One of the guys at the local club (www.ovar.ca) was criticized for his large and extremely varied collection of engines (steam, diesel, modern, vintage, North American, Australian, Eurpean,, huge number of road names).

    His response: "I'm not 'unfocussed'. I'm eclectic."

    You can use that too... ;) :D

    Andrew
  18. LoudMusic

    LoudMusic Member

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    Eclectic, there's another good one. Could be the Eclectic and Eccentric Railroad, the EERR, pronounced "eerrr?" inquisitively.

    Yep, so now I'm waiting for the next credit card cycle so I can go buy me some Bachmann hardware. I'll probably play with that for all of an afternoon before I realize it's the thing to do. Then head to the lumber yard and pick up a truck load of dimensional lumber and a fresh 10" circular blade. Oh, and I need to get the rest of my tools back from my sister.

    Does anyone else run into problems loaning out tools you think are 'for the weekend', only to find out that the person was really planning on keeping them until they'd renovated their entire house? Maybe the neighbor's too? I think she's had my clamps and level for 9 months.
  19. MasonJar

    MasonJar It's not rocket surgery

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    Well, now you know what to get her for Christmas...

    Andrew
  20. LoudMusic

    LoudMusic Member

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    Give her my tools? And buy myself newer better ones? You're a genius! Why didn't I think of this sooner ...