Polly scale for CNR mineral brown ?

Discussion in 'The Real Thing- North America' started by Biased turkey, Apr 27, 2008.

  1. Biased turkey

    Biased turkey Active Member

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    Could anyone please tell me what would be the equivalent Polly Scale paint for the 40' CN boxcars ?
    Here is a pic of the N scale one.
    Tia, Jacques

    [​IMG]
  2. RobertInOntario

    RobertInOntario Active Member

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    Hmm, I'm not sure offhand, but just wondering if you might have better luck posting this question in another section, such as N / Z Scale?
  3. Squidbait

    Squidbait Recovering ALCO-holic

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    Jacques,

    The CN Lines Special Interest Group of the NMRA has a web page that lists the manufacturers of various colours used by CN.

    Officially, the colour used by CN was Red #11 (available in Modelflex, for water-based), but given the vagaries of weathering, any mineral brown/boxcar red should work well.
  4. Biased turkey

    Biased turkey Active Member

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    Thanks to both of you who took some of your precious time to reply.

    RobertInOntario, I hesitated before asking the question on that specific subforum.
    A paint question is not scale specific, so I didn't see any reason to post on a specific scale subforum ( in my case the N/Z one ).
    I think that the members reading the threads on the Canadian subforum are the most qualified to answer.
    I hope DoctorWayne will jump in that thread, I know he has CN boxcars :)

    Squidbait, thanks for the link. I had it bookmarked a few months ago. That's the first place I checked before asking the question here.
    The problem is that CN Red #11 is not available with Polly Scale .
    I had some bad experience(s) with Modelflex so I won't use Badgers paints anymore.
    I'm looking for the CN #11 paint for some weathering job, so a "close enough" paint would be OK for me.
    I checked the CN #12 paint ( a little darker than the CN #11 ). There is a Polly Scale number ( #414281 ) but unfortunately I couldn't find that specific paint number on the Testors website. Has it been discontinued ?

    The CN SIG list the CN #11 as CN red, while the book from Richard Yaremko " 40' Canadian National Boxcars Part 2" never mentions the red paint but talk only about the Mineral Brown.
    It's a little confusing here.

    Jacques
  5. Squidbait

    Squidbait Recovering ALCO-holic

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    Jaques,

    "Red" in railroad colours coveres everything from pinky-scarlet to mud brown. Take a look at the Testors catalog, and look down at the Polly Scale RR colours. You'll find a few "red"s that come close. Mineral red (414350) and Special Freight Car Red (414352) and Special Oxide Red (414354) are probably close.

    If you want the exact colour, you'll have to go with the Scalecoat II colours available from CN Lines SIG.
  6. doctorwayne

    doctorwayne Active Member

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    Jacques, mineral red, boxcar red, freight car brown, etc. are all versions of the same thing. There were variations between some roads (more "red" or more "brown") but most were pretty similar.
    I use Floquil paints (although not for long if the government gets its way), and have used Boxcar Red, Freight Car Brown, and Zinc Oxide Primer for freight cars, although I almost never use it straight from the bottle. Instead, I combine these colours to suit the particular car that I'm doing and to suit my "eye". I'll also add Roof Brown, Caboose Red, Reefer Orange, or Engine Black, among others, if the situation warrants. For a CN car, start with somebody's Boxcar Red - PollyScale has a water-based version very similar to the Floquil colour. You may find this "close enough", or you may want to alter it slightly. Another good choice might be Southern Freight Car Brown.
    All of the cars shown below are a version of "Boxcar Red", although I couldn't give you a formula for any of them. The Pennsy car has orange added, and the B&O car red, along with whatever else I felt was required. Since cars fade and get dirty, too, you almost can't go wrong.
    [​IMG]

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    [​IMG]

    Wayne
  7. Biased turkey

    Biased turkey Active Member

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    Now I understand the vagary of the English language , in French, red is red , brown is brown and a Stanley Cup ( go Habs go ) is a Stanley Cup. ;-).

    I was sure that good old Wayne would jump into that thread :thumb:

    The link to the Testors catalog helped a lot. Comparing with Wayne's pictures I realized that I already have the Polly Scale F414354 Special oxide red. I purchased it for painting brick structures.
    414350 Mineral Red looks like a good choice too.

    Thanks for the suggestions.

    Jacques
  8. RobertInOntario

    RobertInOntario Active Member

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  9. railwaybob

    railwaybob Member

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    If you're looking for CN#11 Green or #11 Yellow, let me know as I have the Home Hardware formula for quarts and gallons but not for any smaller size.

    I guess that, since this is a thread on the prototypes, these would be the appropriate sizes?

    VBG!!

    Bob M.
  10. Biased turkey

    Biased turkey Active Member

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    Bob,
    Do you mean yellow and green like the ones on that CN RS-3 ?

    [​IMG]
  11. railwaybob

    railwaybob Member

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    Exacto Mundo

    CNR #11 Green was used on passenger cars, diesel locomotives, and steam locomotives of the 5700, 6400, and 6060 classes, from 1938 until 1962.

    The following formulae are intended for use with Home Hardware Beauti-Tone Alkyd Exterior Rust Coat Paint:

    CNR #11 Green, Home Hardware (Beauti-Tone) Exterior/Alkyd/ Rust Coat,
    GALLON formula:
    Base # 64-03 Clear Base, 1 gallon size
    Colourant B: 4 ounces + 26 shots
    Colourant C: 4 ounces + 14 shots
    Colourant G: 16 shots
    Colourant Z: 8 shots

    CNR #11 Green, Home Hardware (Beauti-Tone) Exterior/Alkyd/ Rust Coat,
    QUART formula:
    Base # 64-03 Clear Base, 1 quart size
    Colourant B: 1 ounce + 6 shots + 1 half shot
    Colourant C: 1 ounce + 3 shots + 1 half shot
    Colourant G: 4 shots
    Colourant Z: 2 shots

    Note: 1 ounce = 48 shots.


    Bob M.
  12. railwaybob

    railwaybob Member

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    Oops, I almost overlooked this one. Yup, here's the one for the freight cars.

    CNR #11 Red was used on freight cars and cabooses until the late 60s.

    The following formulae are intended for use with Home Hardware Beauti-Tone Alkyd Exterior Rust Coat Paint:

    CNR #11 Red, Home Hardware (Beauti-Tone) Exterior/Alkyd/ Rust Coat,
    QUART formula:
    Base # 64-03 Clear Base, 1 quart size
    Colourant E: 22 shots + 1 half shot
    Colourant G: 2 shots + 1 half shot
    Colourant H: 21 shots + 1 half shot
    Colourant MX: 1 Ounce + 17 shots

    CNR #11 Red, Home Hardware (Beauti-Tone) Exterior/Alkyd/ Rust
    Coat, GALLON formula:
    Base # 64-03 Clear Base, 1 gallon size
    Colourant E: 1 ounce + 42 shots
    Colourant G: 10 shots
    Colourant H: 1 ounce + 38 shots
    Colourant MX: 5 ounces + 20 shots

    Note: 1 ounce = 48 shots.

    Information courtesy of S.B. Hunter, CN SIG Lines, and the
    SMITHS FALLS RAILWAY MUSEUM OF EASTERN ONTARIO
    P.O. Box 962,
    Smiths Falls, Ontario,
    K7A 5A5.

    Bob M.
  13. railwaybob

    railwaybob Member

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    Sorry I can't reduce it down to the small-bottle size. I've only had this stuffed mixed up in quarts and gallons.

    Bob M.
  14. Biased turkey

    Biased turkey Active Member

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    Bob, thanks for posting the formula.
    I don't think I'll be able to use it because I need some CN paints for weathering N scale engines and rolling stock using an airbrush.
    I doubt ( I might be wrong here ) that the Home Hardware latex paints have fine enough pigments to be used in an airbrush.

    Just curious, why do you need such amount of paint? are you painting a real pre 1962 CN engine ?

    Jacques
  15. railwaybob

    railwaybob Member

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    Nope. Railway passenger cars. Window covers for railway passenger cars where the window slides up.

    A friend and I developed a neat way to fabricate window covers for passenger cars so that the rocks wouldn't see the sun reflecting off the glass and decide to launch themselves through the glass.

    The window covers consist of two pieces of fabricated sheet metal fastened to a piece of ½" plywood with eight ¼"x ¾" carriage bolts and nylocs. The plywood is cut to the size of the window openings. The top piece of sheet metal is 6"x 24" with a 1/8" jog in the middle. The top pieces resembles a 24" long piece of eavestrough.

    To install/ remove the 44 covers on a passenger car takes about 30 - 45 minutes with one person inside the car and another person outside the car. The person inside the car opens the window about 8". The person outside the car inserts the window cover into the slot on the top of the window and pushes the cover flush against the window opening. The person inside the car then closes the window.

    There are no screws through any window frame or window sash or into the side of the car.

    Anyone associated with a railway museum that's looking for a neat method to protect the windows, let me know.

    Bob M.

    Bob M.