In need of help

Discussion in 'Ship & Watercraft Models' started by vbsargent, Jan 10, 2013.

  1. vbsargent

    vbsargent Member

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    One of my many projects is an upscale and probable repaint of GPM's USS Ward from 1/200 to 1/72. Because of the size difference and the fact that this will be my first ship I am hesitant to use the usual method of using large flat colored "bands" ofr the hull. So- I am adding the rivited shell plating in order to hide the seams.

    My problem is this- I have no resources showing the shell plating expansion of a Wilkes class destroyer. Or any contemporary destroyers for that matter. Does anyone know of any resources that might be available for me? Bear in mind that my knowledge on the subject is limited (and my funds for this even more so ;-) ).

    Thanks for all your help people!

    vbsargent
  2. Zathros

    Zathros Guest

    If you are talking about the USS Aaron Ward (DD-483), I don't think that ship had an rivets, to be honest. Rivets are weak points and I cannot understand how any ship made that late would have rivets rather than being welded. I could be wrong. I would try and find pictures showing the seams from the welds and work from that.
  3. vbsargent

    vbsargent Member

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    Actually I'm upscaling the USS Ward DD139, laid down May 1918. One of its fellow Wilkes class battleships (HMS Montgomery by that time) had a run in with U96 of Das Boot fame. In real life Lothar G. Bucheim (the author of Das Boot) was a photographer on U-96 at the time of the run in and documented the attack with many a shakey photograph!

    Anyway, what I plan to do is build UHU's Das Boot U-96 and an upscaled Wilkes class in 1/72 nd scale. But to improve the GPM model (or disguise the hull seams) I need an expansion of shell plating. Similar to the one below, but for a Wilkes class destroyer.
    [​IMG]
  4. Zathros

    Zathros Guest

    How long will the up-scaled ship be. The reason I ask is that you could have one done it Photoshop and have a local printer print out the longer hull slides, and you will have no seems. I have a 13" x 19", in reality, it will print however long you tell it the paper is. This would be a quick and painless way of doing it. If you posted the sheets, I could Photoshop the two together. This would have to be done through P.M.'s though. :)
  5. vbsargent

    vbsargent Member

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    @Zathros- The finished upscale will be just over 52"- Yep, you heard right- 4 feet 4 inches long (132.96cm):eek: I am making extensive use of Photoshop and Illustrator. In the past I've created custom print sizes of various oddball lengths (18", 37", etc), so that's not the problem, but many, MANY thanks for the offer. I know that your knowledge of boats and ships superior to mine. My problem is hiding the joint seams on the lower hull, especially below the waterline.

    By experimentation I found that after scanning I can enlarge the parts in Photoshop, import into Illustrator and create a translucent overlay of the plate lines with no fills, save a jpg, then open in Photoshop for compositing, recoloring, and weathering if I so choose. By doing it this way I can have a seam shaped like this:

    [​IMG]

    Please not that the above image is just a crude representation that would not build into anything worthwhile. :p

    My experimentation has shown this to be a very feasable solution, but in working on it I ran into the problem of whether or not the plates nearest the keel were all uniform from the bow to stern(in all likelihood they weren't), or if they changed shape the further fore and aft they went. I have since answered this, but I don't want to just pull a pattern out of my @$$, so I need to know the hull plating expansion that was actually used.

    vbsargent
  6. Zathros

    Zathros Guest

    To know the pattern of the hull plating, gives you a heads up. The war put constrains on a lot of things. I found in my sailing days, that many destroyers that look quite beautiful and smooth in all of the highest resolution photos I could find were quite different in real life. Depending n the time of the year, the weld seams would stick out and really made the ships look patchwork, while during the Summer, mostly, the expansion of materials tended to make the ships taught and smooth. Looking for weld marks is your best bet in trying to cover up seam joining lines. If this model is going to be painted, I would truly suggest so, at 4' 4", that you do not to worry about this and just fill and sand as necessary. This works out really well and is what most people do. The staggered picture would work far better that you may think. The human eye would just glance over the pattern and see the whole, the seams would disappear. :)
  7. vbsargent

    vbsargent Member

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    This is exactly what I hope to accomplish. Apparently Schreiber-Bogen uses it on some of their models with quite a bit of success. Ther's a build on the other forum of a Binnenschiff (Barge) that is quite lovely. The bottom of the hull is quite smooth and the seams all but invisible. I figure that if I combine this techniquie with the technique shown by treadhead1952 on his Selfridge model, it might make the bottom hull very smooth.

    On the plus side I found a good close pic of the Ward's stern on the day it was launched. The rivits stick out so far in the harsh sunlight that they look like they're 3" long! But the rear plates are pretty visible.

    [​IMG]

    Then there is this of the front:
    [​IMG]

    As far as the smoothness of the side of a ship- yeah, this pic here says it all - and even shows some interesting hull plating patterns too!:rolleyes:
    [​IMG]
  8. vbsargent

    vbsargent Member

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    Grrr . . .I guess that pic is too big. Use the address to paste into your browser. It's pretty darned impressive!

    vbsargent
  9. Zathros

    Zathros Guest

    I wonder if those rivets are finished. They usually are pounded quite hard when Red/White hot to form a very broad surface. The surface area of the properly mounted rivet makes for a stronger mount. These look unfinished and may be temporary. Don't know for sure. ? :)
  10. vbsargent

    vbsargent Member

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    @ Zathros- according to the photo source it was launched later that same day- although as you pointed out at the time of the pic many plates are still held on with bolts!