Bill and Tom's EXCELLENT ADVENTURE in Logging and Mining

Discussion in 'Logging, Mining and Industrial Railroads' started by Doctor G, May 28, 2009.

  1. gbwdude

    gbwdude Member

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    Bill,

    I like the results so far. It's a little different than I imagined, but since I'm not an artist by any means I can't take my thoughts and put pencil to paper and draw out how I imagined. By the castings and this mock-up, you have my approval.

    Tyler

    PS: The best part about this picture is my Hiawatha :)
  2. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    PS: The best part about this picture is my Hiawatha :)[/QUOTE]


    This isn't exactly like my original concept either, but some times projects take on a life of their own, and that is what happened here.

    With Modeling projects, like a lot of art, you have external consistency; how well the piece reflects the real world, and internal consistency, how well the model fits with itself, and the rest of the modeled universe. This model is shaping up to be something that at least has internal consistency, it kid of looks like what it is supposed to be, and our Club RR's identity is somewhat generic, so if the building looks right in it's setting, it will help define the feel of the whole layout. Not what I'd have drawn were I to plan a passenger terminal from scratch, but as for shoehorning a passenger terminal into a layout that did not provide for one, I have a good feeling about this. We will see how badly I blow it later.



    And yes, your Hiawatha is awesome!!! Not my period, not my type of train, but very impressive in detail, and as a representation of a specific train at a specific time. all of my passenger cars are generic open platform wood coaches. They aren't making Southern Crescent coaches anymore, or I might be tempted to build a 1977 Southern Cresent. When I made plans to travel in Europe with my future wife, after her junior year abroad, My dad told me to go to the Washington area on my return, visit my sister Ginger, and he would handle travel arrangements from there.

    Jennifer had some unexpected customs expenses that I covered for her, and I was about broke when I got off the amtrack train in Washington. Ginger gave me some first class tickets on the Crescent from Washington D.C. to Meridian MS that dad had gotten for me.. My folks weren't home when I got of the train in Meridian , so I grabbed a cab. I watched the meter, and had him stop while I still had enough for a good tip, grabbed my back pack, a 1910 era wooden and canvas antique, and walked the last two miles to the farm, arriving home at the lake house with out a penny. That was something else, eating the finest food, off of silver plates, with real sliverware, and linen napkins, with next to no cash in the wallet. It is possible I'd build that train for the hell of it.



    Bill Nelson
  3. gbwdude

    gbwdude Member

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    Inside the helix

    I found a decent plan for the paper mill inside the helix that should prove to be fun and challenging. It's essentially a modified Timesaver, but has everything the original has. Normally Timesavers are standalone modules, but to spice it up, at the end where you enter the paper mill will be a street with a local ordinance that prohibits the street being blocked longer than say... 15 minutes (fast time).

    Of course, I need to actually cut the supports for the helix first. But at least I have a decent plan now!

    Tyler

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  4. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

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    Interesting plan

    Looks good. It will be an interesting switching experience. Thanks for putting it together.

    Tom
  5. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    One thing you have to remember, as you do track planning for something like the club, is switching layouts are generally designed for those who don't have a railroad, so the switching experience is all there is, and if it takes you 30 minutes to do a simple job, that is great, cause you don't have anything else to do. My infamous Bumpass module was that way. You could happily waste 45 minutes to an hour moving six or seven cars around, feeding the mill with ore from the mine, breaking down an incoming train and building an outgoing train. When Bumpass was all there was this was better than awesome. Later when shoehorned into a busy RR it became the bottle neck from hell, and those assigned to the Bumpass turn were miserable, because the hour they spent in switching hell, was time they weren't running trains through the mountains.


    Bumpass was replaced by Montgomery Furnace, which is larger, and simpler. If I do my railroad rebuild the new Montgomery furnace will retain the simplicity, and get a huge passing siding, and if it gets some extra delivery locations, like the water powered sawmill currently in Perry's Gizzard the track will be simple, and easy to switch.


    Think of Possum Hollow before Bob rebuilt it, it was built like a switching puzzle, and no one ever used it. Bob has simplified it, and it will be an important part of operations.



    Bill Nelson
  6. gbwdude

    gbwdude Member

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    Bill,

    I have taken in consideration that real railroads want their jobs to be simple and cars exchanged with minimal moves. Now this is nowhere near as complex (to me) as the traditional Timesaver but incorporates all the details the original does. The tracks will more than likely be extended to accommodate two cars per siding (except the pulpwood track, which will take three 50' gons or four 40' gons. Motive power for the plant will be either the Hustlers that I'm slowly working on. Also it is just a plan for now and is subject to change.

    On Carl Arendt's website, the Bumpass modules looked fun but I'll take your word for it when you transplanted it into your current railroad. In planning the Whiskey River modules I've been looking at famous model railroads, such as George Selios' Franklin and South Manchester and MR's Milwaukee, Racine and Troy to see what they changed as far as a operations standpoint. The F&SM was primarily built as a showcase for George's Fine Scale Miniatures company, so those operations were basically just running a train in a big circle with minimal switching. Over time his interests changed to incorporate more switching but is still focused on circular operations. The MR&T is almost the opposite, from the get go they wanted to operate as realistically as possible by taking many cues from the real world by closely following track diagrams and timetables and such of local railroads and railroads of the approximate size and type to see how they conducted business. Now on the Whiskey River Railway we don't want a lot of paperwork to fill out, follow, potentially lose, etcetera and are thinking of how to develop a simplified car card and waybill operation. That's where I get torn, I want simple like the Paper Valley MRC back home (train cards just say exchange one box at ABC Industries) but I'm drawn to the car card and waybill with timetables and that whole route. The tab on car is out, it's not asthetically pleasing to me to see a big green thing on top of a hopper full of coal.

    Tyler
  7. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    I can understand an initial avoidance to the tab on car system for aesthetic reasons; but in practice that is quickly overcome by the simplicity of set up, the very quick learning curve for operators, and the ability to move cars , and run trains ignoring the tabs, knowing they will sort themselves out on the next run. Tom and I have run similar tab on car systems for over 25 years; after a while they are like the magnetic whiskers on KD couplers, and you just don't see them any more. The ability to look at a car, and know instantly where it is supposed to go saves tons of time when you set up cuts of cars in a yard, and lets you easily do things like use one town's passing siding to set up the cars in a particular order to make the deliveries at the next town more efficient.


    I have operated under several systems, and Don't like paper work, or trying to read car numbers and reporting marks in the yard; too much like work.

    enclosed is a photo of the Berghausen-Shoemaker mill with tabs on the cars, are they ugly, yes they are so simple to set up, and easy to operate with that they are well worth any initial distraction, I don't see them any more unless I'm looking for them


    Bill Nelson

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  8. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    One of my short term goals is to clean out the aisles in my RR room, and clean the track in Crooked Creek , Montgomery Furnace, and in Murray, so that I can operate Crooked creek as a switching layout, as I plan to if I do my big tear out.



    If I do that I can give some quick demonstrations of the advantages of the tab on car We used it for over 25 years on Toms old HO RR, as well as on my more complicated RR, and could have crews familiar with the system in 15-20 minutes, most of the crews difficulties using the system came from learning the railroads themselves, both of which are/ were somewhat confusing.


    Bill Nelson
  9. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    Union station Base work

    This year I had a decent train budget, as my wife was too busy to get me a christmas present. Somehow I resisted the temptation to buy a PFM HOn3 Sumpter Valley 2-6-6-2. I invested very heavily in DPM Modular wall sections with which I am constructing the base for the Union Station, and the inside end of Jackson Street.


    I used a bunch of surplus DPM wall sections that we had at the club. they were leftover from my Imperial Desk and Chair building. the largest structure in Harlow TN on my current railroad, and a structure that will definitely grace any future Harlow, although placement might be tricky, as part of it's current function is to hide the end of a double sided backdrop.



    In any case I have built up the wall sections two ways. the first is a loading docK level , single story wall section, with one and three quarters of the loading dock bricks added. the other wall use a second and third story panel. using the two methods of building up a wall uses what is at hand and what I ordered very efficiently, and let me get some desired effects with minimal cutting. They are not exactly the same height, and both are slightly short of the height of the foam core mock up I hope to make up the difference in height with varying height of stone foundation added. A fancy cornice was my original plan, but it was back ordered, so I',m going to establish the proper wall height with varying foundation sizes, and if it is practicable, tack on the cornice at a later date.


    Note where I have spliced in the loading dock height wall sections, I have staggered the buttress sections so the splices are not in the same location as the wall splice for extra strength. I still have to fabricate the thin brick wall sections that will sit on an I beam above the three tracks that pass through the station base.

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  10. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

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    I used the tab on car system for operating sessions after I learned that John Allen used it on the famed Gorre and Daphetid model RR. It is ridiculously simple to use and during operating sessions with up to 6 operators worked very nicely. When I ran the RR for my self I took the tabs off as in these pictures.

    I do not know what I will use on the slowly growing Large Scale RR out back.


    Tom

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  11. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    wall sections for the Union station base

    I have been cutting and gluing stone foundation to the DPM (design preservation miniatures) modular wall section. I have wall sections done for the three outside walls and the far central passage wall. I'm debating as to weather to make a near central passage wall, as it will be nearly impossible to see. right now I'm leaning toward making one just to help the whole thing be a little sturdier.

    I made the wall sections two different ways, using what I had to minimize cost. this resulted in a small height difference. The stone foundation I'm making from some stone material from a stone viaduct kit I used to make a bridge on my narrow gauge loop @ Gegokayoosa NC. One course of stone under the taller wall sections, and two under the shorter makes both of them exactly the same as each other, and the same height as the foam core mock up. I'm hoping to test fit the sections at the club monday night, and possibly glue them up. I don't know how much time I will have to work on it it, as my wife will have me make an antique furniture run on Monday.


    The photos show samples of the two different wall height sections with their attending compensating foundations. I have some fancy cornice material on back order. When I get it , I can study the possibility of adding it on top of the current wall sections, which would increase the road height, and require alterations to the Jackson street bridge, or filing them down to thin them, and installing them in front of the top section of wall.


    Bill Nelson

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  12. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    painting bricks

    I'm painting the bricks for the Union Station base. I didn't use my normal dry brush technique as that would take a very long time, and on a structure this big the inevitable variances would show. so I spray painted the plastic flat black and then red oxide, I spread a dark gray wash on top of that . I'm going for a sooty look, as this is in the middle of the freight yard, as well as having the main and two station tracks pas right through it. the color on the photo is not right, as the photo was to dark, and I had to lighten it some electronically

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  13. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    union station and business flats

    I have the base together for union station, and have started on the business flats for the nearby street.

    The business flat is a Lund Studios product. it looks like some lind of high quality resin, very crisp detail. slightly flexible. I had some trouble getting glues to adhere to it. I eventually used J B Quick with some thin wood backing. this will be on a street along the back drop just to the right of Jackson street and the union station

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  14. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

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    nice

    Those are very nice castings with excellent detail. Good Choice!!!

    Tom
  15. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    made some progress on some flats, the Lundt studio flats, a DPM structure I cut in half to make two flats, and an old flat that was a a brewery on the backside of Harlow before I did a redesign back there. it was at the club, came apart, and I have started to rebuild it. I have the short walls and the windows and doors in the 3 storty lundt studios building, I'll get a photo soon.

    Note the black foam core foolr on the DPM building that has been cut into two flats. this helps stiffin the building. I have another that will amke the roof, but I'll use it as a template to cut some styrene v grove material into flooring material, so I can do some rudimentary interior detailing these flats are deep enough i will probably try to add some LED lighting, which will help them stand out.

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  16. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    DPM Flats

    I have got the glazing, floors and roofs on the DPM flats. all that remains is to splice in the LED lighting. note how much solidity . Floors and walls add a lot of solidity to flats, or any buildings.


    Bill Nelson

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  17. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

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    Sah-wheat.

    Tom
  18. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    a mini tower

    I have been looking for some small elevated tower to control the crossing @ Patterson, where the lead to the Patterson#1 coal mine crosses the main. I had originally planned on using an Atlas elevated crossing tower, but those got back ordered. I eventually bought this Walther's kit for an elevated crossing shanty. they come two in a kit, and I have done most of the painting before assembly. this first one will go to the club to guard the mine crossing, and the other will probably go to my home road for use in Harlow , Tn . guarding the junction of my DG CC &W RR and the Southern Main .


    I haven't put the stairs on it yet. the snow on the structure is a result of sanding the pre painted edges where pieces join together so the paint won't interfere with the glue joint.


    The green trim looks a lot more solid to the eye, the flash kind of overpowered the tiny structure.

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  19. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    Patterson tower

    I got the patterson tower but the rest of the way together. rather than photographing it on foam core I dropped it on my home layout in Crooked Creek. It fits right in as the J. E. Patterson Coal and Lumber company and the DG CC & W RR have identical color schemes for company buildings ( I hear there are interlocking directors). in any case the Patterson tower now has its staircase, and just needs some touch up to the paint. I have left the roof loose, and have a hole drilled through the lower floors so I can light the structure easily later, which should be dramatic.

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  20. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Active Member

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    Are you the only two members left on this forum?