Best ever Rendering Techniques, or How to Burn out your Brain in One Lesson

Discussion in 'Tutorials' started by Gandolf50, May 15, 2018.

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How likely is it that you will render a file in the next week?

Poll closed May 29, 2018.
  1. Very Likely

    25.0%
  2. Not Likely

    25.0%
  3. Somewhat Likely

    50.0%
  4. What's Rendering?

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Gandolf50

    Gandolf50 Researcher of obscure between war vehicles... Moderator

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    I started gathering some info for this thread .. several weeks ago .. as I said I would do a short ( maybe not) TUT on how to do some UV/ Rendering techniques in Rhino ( and others ) for better renders of your 3d works. Zathros kindly sent me a Rhino file to use which I will, at some stage, but while looking at his file I ran into a few snags that I had to work out, as I wanted to make the TUT as simple as possible and yet help make your renders as best as possible with the least amount of damage to brain cells, and not turn it into a modeling tutorial as well! Sorry, some parts of your brain are going to suffer! in fact, before I finish this sentence, the rendering processes out there have more than likely have already changed drastically! Things are just moving that fast!
    This is not specifically aimed to get a textured model for papercraft! That may or maynot be possible! Some things in here will help, some objects and the way virtually all rendering is moving does not produce a PHYSICAL printable image! There it is! That includes Rhino, thought they are several YEARS behind all others in that respect, in all render capabilities.

    First off some terminology. We used have mostly 3 images when rendering, and still do in Rhino.
    A Color Map, or what we used to call a Diffuse Map, is now called ALBEDO.
    A Texture Map, or what we called a Bump Map, is now a NORMAL.
    and a Transparency Map, called the same but is now called a MATTE.
    That would get us by in the old days, but today most everyone is focused towards Gaming or Game Engines, and the highest render quality possible at the smallest computing cost, no longer using GPU but CPU rendering!

    Take a look at this, which is a very recent game, using Unreal Engine 4 ( free by the way, Unreal, not the Game), that pushes the rendering way past anything before and in REAL TIME!

    <iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/CmrXK4fNOEo" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Now look at the mesh.. and see I took just a part of the mesh and only added some of the textures, in Rhino..

    Senua-Rhino.jpg
    You have to remember Rhino only uses Albedo Bump and Transparency!

    Under normal old timey rendering ie-raytraced of years past this would take hours to render!

    Next time we start with some basics... in Rhino and in Blender

    I have most other software but I will only do this TUT with those two. I highly RECOMMEND if you want to render your models GET BLENDER! IT'S FREE!! https://www.blender.org/
  2. Gandolf50

    Gandolf50 Researcher of obscure between war vehicles... Moderator

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    I forgot to assign homework! ( once a professor always a %&^%$) ;)

    Go and read this stuff..will save time and get your feet wet, but don't have wet feet when reading this as something may short out or you might blow a fuse!

    https://www.marmoset.co/posts/physically-based-rendering-and-you-can-too/

    https://seblagarde.wordpress.com/2011/08/17/feeding-a-physical-based-lighting-mode/

    https://www.fxguide.com/featured/monsters-university-rendering-physically-based-monsters/

    no test..but at least when I say metalness or specular you will have heard of it!:)
  3. Cybergrinder

    Cybergrinder Member Extraordinaire

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    My brain hurts.
  4. Gandolf50

    Gandolf50 Researcher of obscure between war vehicles... Moderator

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    Part Two...
    Obviously there is a lot more involved with rendering than a simple TUT can explain! Google it once and run from the avalanche! But I am approaching it from the idea that you have a model... where you got it is your own business! No really, most people that render and do papercraft have , downloaded some model from some obscure site in upper Mongolia and don't have a clue what software it was made with, what/where the texture files are or where they are supposed to be, and those just starting have filled all the 3d sites with questions like" why don't my model have textures"??Help Me!! I can help some there and hope I can help you to dump those lousy textures and add your own, and actually make the model LOOK BETTER!

    you need a few things.. a program (read first post again!)... a model ... ( a good model! ) if you have a triangulated 20 face version of the Millennium Falcon.. it's still going to look like triangulated 20 face version of the Millennium Falcon, not a movie scene when your done!! or more bluntly.. crap! Put a Mercedes emblem on a Pinto it's a .. you get the idea!! Learn how to use the internet search functions extremely well and perhaps you might just find a really good model of what you wanted.. be aware though..if it looks good on screen from where you download, it more than likely will not have the texture files with it! But bookmark this once we are done and hopefully I will have shown you how to deal with that.
    I will also keep updating my second post on homework, with LINKS to various things out there..Videos.. Resources,, Freebies that will come in handy.. I figure that should be a good place for them instead of scattered all over,,like my thoughts!

    OK Lets assume you have a model, perhaps even one you MADE :surprise:, then we all ready know you have a program..duh! So... you do a render view.. not to bad huh? Could it be better, OCD LIKE ME, always! Or perhaps you downloaded one and it does nothing...DARKNESS!! BLACK!! NADA!!

    Let's take Rhino 5 ( going to use 5 for now as 6 is too new)... in your render view, it is usually set up for default lighting.. which I have no idea what that really is as there are no lights, ambient light from nowhere ! Here is a look... gets you an idea...

    Box-nolight.jpg whoah!! we got pictures!!!

    and the same in Blender, though in Blender it has to be turned on!

    More on that Later. when we can upload once again...
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
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  5. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

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    I am making this thread a "STICKY". As soon as I recover from the Tornado damage, I will start to practice it. Thanks!!
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  6. Gandolf50

    Gandolf50 Researcher of obscure between war vehicles... Moderator

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    As we wait .. I thought I would drop a link to the next upcoming game due out in October, busy in beta , and detail production at the moment, but some screen shots will give you some idea of the direction rendering is stampeding towards, and if you are not out in front, you have to eat a lot of dust, and can't see where you are headed!

    https://images.nvidia.com/geforce-c...eld-v/battlefield-v-reveal-screenshot-007.png
    https://images.nvidia.com/geforce-c...eld-v/battlefield-v-reveal-screenshot-006.png
    https://images.nvidia.com/geforce-c...eld-v/battlefield-v-reveal-screenshot-008.png
    https://images.nvidia.com/geforce-c...eld-v/battlefield-v-reveal-screenshot-011.png
    https://images.nvidia.com/geforce-c...eld-v/battlefield-v-reveal-screenshot-001.png

    Reminder! These are.. INGAME SCREENSHOTS, not video cutscenes!
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  7. bigpetr

    bigpetr Designer/Master Modeler

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    Unbelivable this is ingame graphic.
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  8. Gandolf50

    Gandolf50 Researcher of obscure between war vehicles... Moderator

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    What is happened is the game consoles, and having the games and the PC's demanding them also, the need for better , more realistic graphics has caused the industry to drop the idea of using advanced GPU rendering, as very few have it, and use CPU rendering. This allows even lower end machines to get higher quality graphics in real time, without bogging down the game play. Though the better the machine the better quality and optional quality graphics become available, adding light bloom, light rays, ambient occlusion, subsurface scattering... add infinium!
    lyter1958 likes this.
  9. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

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    Damned!! :)
  10. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

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    Downloading UNREAL ENGINE now! :)
  11. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

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    Downloaded UNREAL ENGINE. I feel very dumb. It doesn't take 3dm files, but I can always save or export them as a file that it does accept, right? :)
  12. Gandolf50

    Gandolf50 Researcher of obscure between war vehicles... Moderator

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    Save as .fbx and you are fine...

    and will work if you just want to get the model to Unreal! If you place ANY texture on it you will then run into problems..that way! (...save for later on in the TuTorial!)

    Free trial of Unreal studio has Datasmith plugin that reads .3dm directly.. one problem I have reported though it flipps UV's - 180° so before sending - or after you to flip them for them to work.. ok if you have a few but if you have all 5-7 map types for 5 to 10 objects it gets to be a pain.. the trial beta last up till about October-November.. don't remember off hand..

    https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/studio
    https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/studio#datasmithOverview

    .. you will quickly learn that ( I was going to get to this) that PBR rendering will eat up Hard Drive space in a heartbeat! 5-6 4k textures for ONE asset model + programs multiply by hundreds!!! == several 4-8tb drives FULL !! Lucky 4-6 TB external drives are now 70-100$.. use them for flash drives now! as of now I have 5 6 TB drives and might need a few more soon! I do not use the cloud!

    also get ready for a very steep learning curve! Luckily it is mostly PLUG and PLAY but ... for strictly matinee production ie. rendering.. not so bad..and gentle on the brain cells before jumping off the deep end into the maelstrom of animation production!! Also they update regularly and something made with one version will not always be compatible with the next! End up having current and previous builds ( maybe not installed but available!) Also ( and your system will have no problems ) you need some memory and computing power, you can GET BY on the basic requirements needed but when getting "INTO IT!" I have found myself running Blender 2.79 in full cycles render mode, Rhino in Full Render Mode , Substance Painter, unreal Studio and sometimes even corel Paintshop pro x9 on top...bridging between them... really puts a drain on the old system!
  13. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

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    What do you consider an adequate system?
  14. Gandolf50

    Gandolf50 Researcher of obscure between war vehicles... Moderator

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    Ohh that is a tough question! and I am going to answer by.. the best system YOU CAN AFFORD ! That is what it really boils down to.. and a system that you have the ability to upgrade! Dual Core minimum I would say.. I haven't really looked at what the latest base system a running.. as I used a AMD 6 core processor started with 32 gig memory ( 64 obviously..) storage is almost a standard now at 2TB but if your into what we do..I would start off with at least 4 if possible! 2 fills up very quickly! But it has become very inexpensive to addon external storage 4TB externals are 100$ or cheaper if you shop around! GPU only so much as you can afford again.. I have always used NVIDIA and have rarely had a problem, most problems only occur when windows does some stupid update and NVIDIA didn't get the memo,, and has to scramble to get the work around/ fix to Microsoft's screwups! Nowadays it has to be CUDA compatible! ( but that is for the Unreal stuff) I have an older card and need to update soon as it is an older GEForce 700 series and they are up to the 1000 series now! But even my old card runs almost 400 CUDA cores! Not bad for it's age! So ! Since I don't have to worry that much anymore about GPU rendering on the creation like the old days... I will look at a MID-Range Card..as I am not a GAMER-FANATIC! and DON'T need a water cooled monster in my case! for 1000's bucks + to boot... ( would be NICE but I ain't rich! ) but something like the GEFORCE GTX 1080 ( when the price drops a bit or on sale! )

    Most off -the- shelf systems right now will run all the software we have talked about.. you don't need some monster computer to do this stuff.. but a decent chunk of memory 8-16 GIG to start with or you will find screens slowing down or freezing! You don't need to run 1/2 a dozen programs at the same time as I do .. I just can and do.. saves time but it also eats up storage space and memory! I also have bridges between most programs so that one change here is automatically implemented in the other program.. but if you are just rendering.. you don't need it.. spend your money on STORAGE!!! MEMORY!!! and a PROCESSOR!!! the rest is just eye candy! and then of course there are PROGRAMS which cost more than all the rest put together!! Find FREE Stuff ..take a basket weaving class at the local community college and get educational licences and STAY AWAY FROM..( BOYCOTT ) only corporate intenties can afford the RENT A PROGRAMS that all the major 3d-graphics conglomerates are gouging the hobbyist with!! If you can find an older program like CS5 on disk ..GRAB It !!! Any of the older stuff that is now rental only..find older copies on disk and hoard them.. they may be old but at least they are yours.and not rented! If you can keep an older system up and running.. I have an old Pre-windows 7 system running with all the old stuff on it.. not web enabled..and hard wired to my new one.. I need Photoshop..I run my old copy off of the old system! I'm not playing their games! Opps..sounded like a start of a rant!... Gota watch that.. some things they do just flat TICK ME OFF!! Next post.. we will get back on track..!!Gotta remember what we were really talking about!
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  15. Gandolf50

    Gandolf50 Researcher of obscure between war vehicles... Moderator

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    OK... Render... 1st off a model...I am going to use some objects already UVed as I want to explain a little about UV edits in Rhino and in Blender and WHY...

    UV set up where the TEXTURE is going to MAP! I am going to leave it at that.. there are far too many UV tutorials out there on UVs to waste space on it here and they do a better job and in video..which I could do..but not real well! Video of a 32" monitor is a massive video, so... better for us in a few detail pix here and there and more explanation..than trying to follow someone clicking here and there !

    From Perspective view..shaded ..not textured ( Rhino automatically adds default texture to any loaded object), object SteamPunk Scooter selected..
    DPscoot01.jpg
    If I were to edit the UV right now I would get every single object on the scooter..and sometimes that is exactly what you want to do! a single UV image with all the parts arranged on one image to color/greeble/bump and weather in your program of choice. BUT if you go In rhino to Properties / Texture Mapping - you will see that you CAN NOT EDIT the texture map.. If you GROUP anything together you can not edit the texture map! UN-GROUP it!
    If they are Joined OK!
    Here I UNGROUPED, then JOINED the whole object together... ( this is ONLY if you want a single UV image!! )
    scoot-3.jpg
    Now I have the UV editor Function available! Whoopee Now what the hell do I do... Have your top View Maxed... click UV editor... then you have Options.. I use 3Point ..elect an open are ..at top..click and type in 1024 it will create a line for you click and it will set length, for width use enter to use height as width and enter again to select rectangle... it does not always take..some time you might have to repeat..or even mouse down to end of rectangle and click for it to take but it will usually work..it will think for awhile.. and something will pop up..

    scoot-4.jpg I forgot...this work mostly for all of you guys and gals grabbing stuff off of the net! Not so much for stuff you just created!
    In this case I have some overlaps because I already did this one... and have multiple UV sets.. and it will not usually be this neat! you will have to move and scale everything to fit on your 1024 UV map.. It will most always have transparency on, and use material..... click on highlight selected.. show wireframe, and if creating your own texture click use texture... I only use premade textures from here and have never applied Rhino's included textures at least not from here, so go to Youtube for those! Click on the file and go get the file from where you saved it and hopefully you remember where it is!

    scoot-6.jpg

    This one is just the base color, with some dirt and stuff.. so hit APPLY and you are off and running.. and in your views..nothing happens?? WTF??
    Goofy thing about Rhino.. You have to reselect the object and go back to PROPERTIES/MATERIAL and check.. sometimes you have to load the texture into the COLOR SLOT under TEXTURES, or if it is there already,, use the dropdown material selector on top and re-select material... or maybe you have it set that material is set by layer and not OBJECT. So what good is all this... once there is a UV you can edit every single texture on the object!

    Ok.. enough for now..open for questions??

    Attached Files:

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  16. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

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    So my long in the tooth AMD 965 B.E. 4.6 Ghz Quad core, 12 Gigs of Ram, 4 Gigs of Video Ram, and 5 Terabytes of storage should work fine. Thanks.. I will try you Tut out when I get the chance.

    Is this model available? Just to follow every step, every way, and for comparison. This is my weak point in modeling. :)
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  17. Cybergrinder

    Cybergrinder Member Extraordinaire

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    AMD chips can't be beaten for value for money & 3D work :) (they do run a bit hotter tthan Intel though :())Funny enough, most gamers will opt for AMD when building a serious gaming rig :)
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  18. Gandolf50

    Gandolf50 Researcher of obscure between war vehicles... Moderator

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    Check your Email;)

    And yes will do just fine!...but just ONE texture file nowadays with all the maps is running.. about for a PBR metal scruffed with all the maps 29meg! and that is a simple SMALL ONE ! Thats 1 texture! https://www.poliigon.com/ check out there free stuff... you can see how things can get nasty REAL QUICK!
  19. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

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    Went to Poliigon, big is right! Got the model too. :)
  20. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

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    They can take the running hotter and last far longer than Intel Chips, in my experience. The 8 core rig I have has a radiator on it that would work for a Heater fore on my M.G. Midget!! ;)