WP&YR Passenger Car
- Thread starter wpyr
- Start date
Yes, but they're probably incorrect if they're not brass (or those model power cars..)
Are you sure you wouldn't want to have them scratchbuilt by somebody like myself, or do them yourself? Either way, you'd get exactly what you want, and they'd be correct for the White Pass, with the notable exception that they're standard gauge. Plus you'd have models that you'd be proud of, and that you'd probably keep for a long time and cherish. :thumb:
I know I would have to buy a Roundhouse Overton passenger car and change the roof to a more rounder one.
Okay...narrow gauge...passenger cars...scratchbuilding...I have to get into this thread...
Several things first:
The WP&Y is a narrow gauge road...and therefore...no prototypically accurate items have ever been (or will ever be) offered in standard gauge. But...Sn3 is very close to HO in size...if you like the size. Some people do, very loosely, model narrow gauge prototypes with standard gauge equipment...but they are a minority. Numerous items have been released in the lettering of narrow gauge railroads...but they typically aren't remotely close...such as DSP&P 4-4-0s from IHC...which have almost nothing in common with the DSP&P's only 4-4-0...which was narrow gauge.
The MDC 34' cars are actually too short for narrow gauge cars. They're too short for anything. The lion's share of 3' passenger equipment was 42' long. The Maine 2' cars were 50' long. As was mentioned...they were based off of the Sierra railroad's cars...they're featured in many movies such as Back to the Future 3. MDC's beautiful palace cars are also a poor choice of prototype...the only wooden cars that big...were a set of Pullman demonstrators. That being said...I own both and love them because they look cool.
You could collect accurate stuff...but keep with HO for operation if you'd like...whatever would be the most fun for you.
Here's the mother load for WP&Y locomotives in Sn3...
Locomotives Price List
They offer 2-8-2s...2-6-0s...2-8-0s...both types of diesels...steel cabooses...and freight cars. You also could pick up Bill's Train Shop's EBT 2-6-2 in either Sn3 or On3...she may have been sent to the WP&Y during WW2...but I'd just get a real WP&Y engine.
I could help you with scratch building the passenger cars...regardless as to the scale (except etched brass Nn3)...and there are far simpler approaches than what I'm doing with my paycar...far simpler and easier...I could provide tips...as would everyone else here...and you would be able to enjoy a cheap approach to adding custom models to your pike.
Btw...CDS is retiring. They also make dry transfers...not decals...which don't have the decal films...but once you apply them...you can't move them around/straighten them afterwards like decals. A successor to the CDS line has been lined up.
Several things first:
The WP&Y is a narrow gauge road...and therefore...no prototypically accurate items have ever been (or will ever be) offered in standard gauge. But...Sn3 is very close to HO in size...if you like the size. Some people do, very loosely, model narrow gauge prototypes with standard gauge equipment...but they are a minority. Numerous items have been released in the lettering of narrow gauge railroads...but they typically aren't remotely close...such as DSP&P 4-4-0s from IHC...which have almost nothing in common with the DSP&P's only 4-4-0...which was narrow gauge.
The MDC 34' cars are actually too short for narrow gauge cars. They're too short for anything. The lion's share of 3' passenger equipment was 42' long. The Maine 2' cars were 50' long. As was mentioned...they were based off of the Sierra railroad's cars...they're featured in many movies such as Back to the Future 3. MDC's beautiful palace cars are also a poor choice of prototype...the only wooden cars that big...were a set of Pullman demonstrators. That being said...I own both and love them because they look cool.
You could collect accurate stuff...but keep with HO for operation if you'd like...whatever would be the most fun for you.
Here's the mother load for WP&Y locomotives in Sn3...
Locomotives Price List
They offer 2-8-2s...2-6-0s...2-8-0s...both types of diesels...steel cabooses...and freight cars. You also could pick up Bill's Train Shop's EBT 2-6-2 in either Sn3 or On3...she may have been sent to the WP&Y during WW2...but I'd just get a real WP&Y engine.
I could help you with scratch building the passenger cars...regardless as to the scale (except etched brass Nn3)...and there are far simpler approaches than what I'm doing with my paycar...far simpler and easier...I could provide tips...as would everyone else here...and you would be able to enjoy a cheap approach to adding custom models to your pike.
Btw...CDS is retiring. They also make dry transfers...not decals...which don't have the decal films...but once you apply them...you can't move them around/straighten them afterwards like decals. A successor to the CDS line has been lined up.
How accuate do you want to go? You could make a conversion of your president's choice caboose (I have the same one) by cutting the old cupola off and building a new one out of styrene, reshaping the walls and roof on the ends. but then the windows would be different and that would take alot of work to change.
If you want total accuacy you'd had to scratchbuild using the original plans.
If you want total accuacy you'd had to scratchbuild using the original plans.
That caboose has now died in a painting accident. I have no clue how to paint trains. I tried to use spraypaint and tape but It didnt work that well.
...are you sure you don't want me to at least come up with a parts list for you? Or build it for you? I don't mean to keep pushing you like this, I just don't want you to get frustrated trying to do this.
contact me through the my if you wish to have either.
contact me through the my if you wish to have either.
You could start with this MDC car:
but use the version with the the tongue and groove sides, and a roof like this car:
These cars are about 56' long over the platforms, so they'd need to be shortened. However, before you do that, cut a block of wood to fit inside the car, then run it lengthwise (down the middle, with the roof in place) through a table saw to bring the width down to what it should be. Glue the halves back together, then cut a section out of the length to make it shorter. After you glue it back together, install a cupola. The old Silver Streak Southern Pacific style is pretty close, but it's metal. An easier-to-find option would be the Walthers SP C-30-1 or the PRR N6B, and since these are plastic, easier to make narrower.
For the radial roof car, scratchbuild the body from styrene. You could also use styrene for the roof, or use the wood one from Northeastern. Check the Walthers catalogue for detail parts: New England Rail Services have windows that could be modified, and Grandt Line offers parts, including doors and windows, for narrow gauge cars.
Other than the basic body shells, you could parts-build these cars right out of the catalogue.
:-D
Wayne
but use the version with the the tongue and groove sides, and a roof like this car:
These cars are about 56' long over the platforms, so they'd need to be shortened. However, before you do that, cut a block of wood to fit inside the car, then run it lengthwise (down the middle, with the roof in place) through a table saw to bring the width down to what it should be. Glue the halves back together, then cut a section out of the length to make it shorter. After you glue it back together, install a cupola. The old Silver Streak Southern Pacific style is pretty close, but it's metal. An easier-to-find option would be the Walthers SP C-30-1 or the PRR N6B, and since these are plastic, easier to make narrower.
For the radial roof car, scratchbuild the body from styrene. You could also use styrene for the roof, or use the wood one from Northeastern. Check the Walthers catalogue for detail parts: New England Rail Services have windows that could be modified, and Grandt Line offers parts, including doors and windows, for narrow gauge cars.
Other than the basic body shells, you could parts-build these cars right out of the catalogue.
:-DWayne
WP&Y, you're in the right place to get help.
Here's a tool list:
for building:
-a digital caliper (dial works too)
-a small mill file
-jewelers' files
-a sharp hobby knife/razor blade
-plastic cement
-a scale ruler
-machinist squares
Those are all relatively cheap and you might already have them.
Additional nice tools:
-an airbrush
-NWSL's Chopper
-a rotary tool (dremel, B&D Wizard, etc...)
-good lighting for your workspace
-small drills
I would suggest getting yourself one of Grandt Line's HOn3 C&S refrigerator car kits. These cars were later sold to the Rio Grande Southern and then on to the WP&Y. Microtrains offers them RTR...but point of getting one is to have some practice building a craftsman kit before kitbashing/scratch building. If you are concerned that an HOn3 kit might be too small...you could build one of their On3 kits...such as their C&S gondola...but those were not WP&Y cars.
Right now, you need to develop your skills...don't become discouraged because you killed your caboose...learning mistakes happen. I built 7 Grandt Line kits before it occurred to me that the grab irons on cars shouldn't be flush against the car's body...they should have a little space for the brakeman to grab onto it wall1. I also screwed up my C&S reefer when I painted it the wrong color. I then painted of that, with a brush, a different wrong color. By the time I had the color right...it looked awful. I finally got around to stripping the paint and am in the process of repainting it now. I was also able to fix my mistakes with the grab irons...one of which I had completely forgotten to install and one which I installed a normal one instead of an L shaped one.
We could support you in the construction...and you would then have learned skills which would make kitbashing a caboose a much easier task...and you'd have a model to put in the trophy case.
It would cost you: $20 for the kit ($40 in On3)...$5? for the decals...$5 for paint...$2-3 for couplers. While that probably sounds ridiculously expensive...I'd rather have 6 grandt line cars than 60 Athearn, MDC, and Model Power...they are that good.
Here's a tool list:
for building:
-a digital caliper (dial works too)
-a small mill file
-jewelers' files
-a sharp hobby knife/razor blade
-plastic cement
-a scale ruler
-machinist squares
Those are all relatively cheap and you might already have them.
Additional nice tools:
-an airbrush
-NWSL's Chopper
-a rotary tool (dremel, B&D Wizard, etc...)
-good lighting for your workspace
-small drills
I would suggest getting yourself one of Grandt Line's HOn3 C&S refrigerator car kits. These cars were later sold to the Rio Grande Southern and then on to the WP&Y. Microtrains offers them RTR...but point of getting one is to have some practice building a craftsman kit before kitbashing/scratch building. If you are concerned that an HOn3 kit might be too small...you could build one of their On3 kits...such as their C&S gondola...but those were not WP&Y cars.
Right now, you need to develop your skills...don't become discouraged because you killed your caboose...learning mistakes happen. I built 7 Grandt Line kits before it occurred to me that the grab irons on cars shouldn't be flush against the car's body...they should have a little space for the brakeman to grab onto it wall1. I also screwed up my C&S reefer when I painted it the wrong color. I then painted of that, with a brush, a different wrong color. By the time I had the color right...it looked awful. I finally got around to stripping the paint and am in the process of repainting it now. I was also able to fix my mistakes with the grab irons...one of which I had completely forgotten to install and one which I installed a normal one instead of an L shaped one.
We could support you in the construction...and you would then have learned skills which would make kitbashing a caboose a much easier task...and you'd have a model to put in the trophy case.
It would cost you: $20 for the kit ($40 in On3)...$5? for the decals...$5 for paint...$2-3 for couplers. While that probably sounds ridiculously expensive...I'd rather have 6 grandt line cars than 60 Athearn, MDC, and Model Power...they are that good.
Don't worry if you have messed up the paint on the car. You can strip the paint off and start over. Let the car body soak for 30 minutes or so in either denatured alcohol or Pine Sol cleaner and the paint will probably soften up and dissolve off the body. Scrub the body with an old toothbrush to remove the last bit of paint and it will be ready to start over.
As far as those cars, Start with the model power cars, sand the wood detail off, and clad styrene over them with rivet detail, and bash a cupola on top.
A few things I've noticed that haven't been addressed yet:
1. the greatest limitation on making your own decals is that normal printers cannot print in white...(Alps made (past tense) the only home printer which could print in white). There is a system out there...you can search the forum to find it.
2. you can add rivet details in a number of ways. You could use 0.010" thick styrene and form rivets by gently poking it with a small nail, needle file, or such...you should have the plastic sitting on something soft like a magazine...the rivet detail will be on the opposite side of the sheet. You can do the same thing with 0.005" thick brass...and possibly with 0.010" thick brass. An alternative is to drill tiny holes in a piece of brass and use a stylus to form the rivets...if you struggle with forming a consistent size of rivets.
3. Brake fluid and oven cleaner also work to remove paint...if you have them around but not Pinesol or denatured alcohol.
4. you can form your own grab irons from small diameter brass or music wire...Grandt Line provides jigs in their kits which are handy for making them.
5. what type of paint did you use on the caboose...and what exactly happened to the caboose...did it melt? Some paints can attack certain types of plastic. Plastic cements work by dissolving styrene...once the solvent in the cement evaporates...the parts solidify again and essentially become 1 piece (as opposed to glues which just stick them together)...plastic cement can be merely paint thinner...most of the popular ones in triangular shaped squeeze bottles are little more than a solvent (such as paint thinner) with plastic dissolved in it. The dissolved plastic will solidify upon drying...which can fill the space around a grab iron or so. If you drop a part into the thinner...it will melt. Spray paints have paint thinner in them...so if a large amount is sprayed at once...it is effectively like the wicked witch of the west receiving a bucket of water to the face...
1. the greatest limitation on making your own decals is that normal printers cannot print in white...(Alps made (past tense) the only home printer which could print in white). There is a system out there...you can search the forum to find it.
2. you can add rivet details in a number of ways. You could use 0.010" thick styrene and form rivets by gently poking it with a small nail, needle file, or such...you should have the plastic sitting on something soft like a magazine...the rivet detail will be on the opposite side of the sheet. You can do the same thing with 0.005" thick brass...and possibly with 0.010" thick brass. An alternative is to drill tiny holes in a piece of brass and use a stylus to form the rivets...if you struggle with forming a consistent size of rivets.
3. Brake fluid and oven cleaner also work to remove paint...if you have them around but not Pinesol or denatured alcohol.
4. you can form your own grab irons from small diameter brass or music wire...Grandt Line provides jigs in their kits which are handy for making them.
5. what type of paint did you use on the caboose...and what exactly happened to the caboose...did it melt? Some paints can attack certain types of plastic. Plastic cements work by dissolving styrene...once the solvent in the cement evaporates...the parts solidify again and essentially become 1 piece (as opposed to glues which just stick them together)...plastic cement can be merely paint thinner...most of the popular ones in triangular shaped squeeze bottles are little more than a solvent (such as paint thinner) with plastic dissolved in it. The dissolved plastic will solidify upon drying...which can fill the space around a grab iron or so. If you drop a part into the thinner...it will melt. Spray paints have paint thinner in them...so if a large amount is sprayed at once...it is effectively like the wicked witch of the west receiving a bucket of water to the face...
Well I used spray paint and I messed up taking off the tape. I meesed up painting the sides of the caboose too.
Well how much would it cost me? How far away are you that I have to pay lots of money in getting it mailed? I also think the roundhouse overton cars would work better.
The Parts list would cost nothing. Building the cars would vary in cost, depending solely on how much detail you want on them, and the parts It'd take to make them. It was $30.00 to ship anything to canada the last time I did (tariff inc.) There must be a less expensive way, as I'm only in the U.S...hmm.
The overton cars are nice, but the model power cars are MORE ACCURATE. Period.
As for the round roofed ones, those can be scratchbuilt.
The overton cars are nice, but the model power cars are MORE ACCURATE. Period.
As for the round roofed ones, those can be scratchbuilt.
wpyr,
You're sure getting a lot of good responses here! As nkp174 noted scratchbuilding is a process that can include errors, but we prefer to call them learning experiences.
Among the range of modelers there are some who love to scratchbuild as accurately as possible, some who create things that are good enough to please themselves, and others who prefer to purchase completed models. A lot of us do all of those things! I think its great that you're considering building something yourself but if you opt to buy, that's OK too. It can be very satisfying to scratchbuild or kitbash your own equipment. Give yourself time and permission to accept approximations of what you want your work to be and keep trying if you wish to build! Above all, enjoy the hobby in whatever way you participate.
Ralph
You're sure getting a lot of good responses here! As nkp174 noted scratchbuilding is a process that can include errors, but we prefer to call them learning experiences.
Among the range of modelers there are some who love to scratchbuild as accurately as possible, some who create things that are good enough to please themselves, and others who prefer to purchase completed models. A lot of us do all of those things! I think its great that you're considering building something yourself but if you opt to buy, that's OK too. It can be very satisfying to scratchbuild or kitbash your own equipment. Give yourself time and permission to accept approximations of what you want your work to be and keep trying if you wish to build! Above all, enjoy the hobby in whatever way you participate.Ralph