oldtanker:
Global warming is not crying wolf. IT is a very real and serious threat to humanity. In fact, we have already seen effects of it, like Katrina's intensity, dying Coral Reefs, and storms and rising sea levels (at the moment they have risen 4" from pre-industrial times, which is insignificant for most places, although the rising is going to speed up rapidly if athmospheric CO2 levels are not stabilized) that have caused some islands in Alaska and the South Pacific to become unlivable. These are only tiny things compared to what will probably happen if warming continues to accelerate.
Check out the fact that conservative oil-man George W. Bush said that Global Climate Change is a "serious challenge". Thats saying quite a bit for Bush. Thats not saying hes actually doing much about it, but at least he admits it is a "serious challenge".
Renovo PRR:
You are being extremely hypocritical in your assesment of having "tunnel vision". You must have tunnel vision, as it has already been mentioned in this thread that 98% of climate scientists agree with the fact that global warming is occuring, and it is happening because of humans burning fossil fuels. That means you are tunnel visioning in on the 2% of scientists and a tiny percentage of the data that casts a little bit of doubt on future predictions of warming.
The other problem with your arguments is that the earth is already 1C wamer than it was in pre-industrial times, and charts of temperature and atmospheric CO2 levels have a very direct and very real connection. They also have a very direct and very real connection with humans' use of fossil fuels, starting out with coal for the industrial revolution in the 1850s, and continuing to the increased use of automobiles and electicity, usually generated with coal or natural gas, in the last half century or so.
In terms of computer models of what is happening, all it takes is a sheet of paper, and a pencil to make a very rudimentary sketch of the climate for the next century, assuming that fossil fuel use stays at current levels or expands slightly. All you have to do is extend the curve of temperature, and the curve of CO2, both of which have gone up drastically in the last 30 years, and the curves go up even more steeply. While it may not be an exact match of what is happening now, it may slow due to various factors, or negative feedback loops as you have described with cloud cover, or it may speed up due to positive feedback loops like parts of the Amazon dying and catching fire, or the arctic melting and absorbing more solar radiation, it will be going up, and that is pretty clear.
Yes, it is common for people to support the data that supports my point of view, but I formed my point of view from the data in the first place. I have no current financial interest in global warming at this time. I don't own a wind farm, and I don't own a coal power plant. Or anything else that is tied to CO2 and energy use for that matter. I looked at the data, got data from many different sources, and figure out that global warming really is happening. Exxon-Mobil and others have an interest to sell fuels that cause global warming, so they want to make it seem like it is not happening, or that the effects are so minor that nothing will really change. The issue is also directly political in that Exxon-Mobil (there are others, I just use them as an example, as they are responsible for largest percentage of CO2 in the atmosphere of any company in the world, somewhere around 3% of man made CO2), lobbies Congress to do nothing about Global Warming, and to do nothing about cleaner, newer, more efficient, non-foreign-oil energy.
I just get somewhat angry when people start putting out junk data, especially about the earth that we all have to live on. It serves no one well to put out junk data that hides the biggest problem facing humankind right now. If we don't take measure to reduce fossil fuel usage, the earth will not be as pretty a place to live on for future generations as it is now.
As for saying that PR people, or entire front groups are responsible for this misinformation, I say that because every time I see an article about how Global warming isn't happening, I can either trace it to an ulta-conservative think tank with undisclosed funding, or somehow to Exxon-Mobil and friends (US mining associations, US car companies, other oil companies etc.), usually through an ultra-conservative, big-business loving think tank that acts as a big PR front group for these companies. There are, however, a few responsible companies out there. Xcel energy was an example I used earlier in the thread to describe a company who is a huge CO2 polluter but admits there is a serious problem, and that the government needs to cap emissions from the power industry.
IAIS 604:
Great points on science and theories. I also find it frustrating to "swim up the Mississippi" when people ignore the very real facts that Global Warming is occuring.
The issue is very complex, but it is pretty clear that we have enough scientific data to show that Global Warming is happening, that we as a race, and as a leading country in the world, need to take serious steps to first stop CO2 emissions growth, and then reduce CO2 emissions drastically. That would also have the side effects of many more jobs, keeping money that is now escaping to OPEC countries and Russia in the US, with home grown biofuels, decreasing energy bills by mandating high efficiency, and making a more reliable grid, as the less power is used, and the more diversified the sources are, like distributed renewable generation, the less chance there is of a brown-out or black-out. Using efficient technologies and renewables would also decrease asthma and other respitory problems in cities by cleaning up the air that is currently being polluted by fossil fuels.
oldtanker:
SUVs actually do rollover. A lot. Many people get killed by those things. Not to mention they suck up way too many gallons of fossil fuels.
IAIS 604:
I agree about the true scientists and agendas. Unfortunately, many of the scientists out there have agendas, and make the data fit whatever their goal is- like trying to disprove Global Warming. We will always have these fake, as some companies make $9B/ quarter, and like to do bad things with it.
While you do have to be a scientist who has done research or study in order to be a true expert on the topic, people can be informed citizens by looking at the sources of the data, reading between the lines, reading information from official sources, like the IPCC, EPA, etc, and using some common sense. This is what I have done with Global Warming, and by doing my reasearch, I have gained substantially more knowledge about the topic than 90% of the American population. Its a little different than a physician, I know I can help the environment by using less power and driving less. Its not that hard. In terms of future models, I can only comment on the various ones that I have read, and what they say. I am cerainly not going to try and make my own, but I can use the data provided with predictions to get the bottom of the issue.
N Gauger:
What about your kids and their kids? And, you are not gone right now, and right now Global warming is effecting the planet. Since CO2 stays in the atmosphere, we as a race need to do something NOW about reducing output, as otherwise it will be too late. There is still a ton of reaserch to be done about how the climate works, and how Global Warming will progress, but it is obvious that it is happening, it is bad, and the human race needs to reduce CO2 emissions DRASTICALLY. The science to prove that is all in. We now need to act on it.