One for the admins

[seraphim]

oh wisest of the wise
shrinker of rays
designers extraordinaire

During my hours of Card Meditation and Fold Prayer bulgeeye I had a moment of enlightenment BRAVO
We have numerous amazing designers, builders, crafters, painters and artisans in this community, and while it might be true that there are only the chosen few who are masters of these varied arts I would say that (i hope) we can all contribute well here through shared knowledge, chat and humour.
To that end, i know that over my time here there have been some amazing subjects covered, many wished for, and some seen through to the finish. While we all have our lives and complications going on in our day to days, i have seen time and again the willingness to help people out with their craft, designs or projects on the go.
So....
Has there ever been a discussion of doing something like a 'group' design - just throwing this out there - one that those who would be willing, regardless of skill level, be interested in choosing a project to design, refine, and perhaps see through to the finish as a 'Zealot' group project? all credits to those involved, maybe one thread for the project chosen, and those who wish to chip in could do? It seems that we have alot of technical skill here, creative skill and artistic skill, and those among us who know how to put 2 & 2 together - I thought it might be an interesting idea to think on and maybe a way for those who wish to, be involved in something unique and maybe even learn a thing or three?

What say ye oh wise ones?

 

[Rhaven Blaack]

I have to say that this is a very interest idea. It reminds me very much of the Group build thread "The UHU02 Colonial Viper appreciation thread", where members of the forum built the Colonial Viper that was designed by UHU20, in any fashion that the member so chose.

As for this particular idea, I could see a few logistical questions that would have to be addressed.

• What is the overall theme and genre?
• Is each person involved in this project designing their own version of said model, or designing a particular part/component?
• If each designer is designing a particular part/component, how will that component be integrated into the whole project?
• Will there be an independent beta test builder?

Granted, I may be over-thinking this project idea; however, when I hear about things like this, I have a tendency of thinking through different scenarios.

 

[Revell-Fan]

Seraphim, we are truly honoured by your wise words! Thank you very much!

Well, if I understand you correctly what you are proposing is different than a traditional group build in which several indiviuals build the same model like what we have done with UHU02's Viper. @Rhaven Blaack and I have formed a team to develop new models. Even though our focus is scifi we are not afraid to tackle other themes. Over the years we have developed a nice workflow which goes like this: I design a 3D model, unfold and texture it. If I have the time I do the alpha test to make necessary adjustments to the parts and instructions. If my time is scarce the first draft of the kit is sent to Rhaven who does the test instead. Having another person who is not involved in the design process do the test is an ideal way to find out if the instructions are clear enough and if the parts assemble in the desired fashion. He then gives me regular updates on the build including pictures of the build steps which are used to clarify steps or update the preliminary CG pictures and written descriptions. He informs me about anything that might need to be changed and optimized. His suggestions improve the kit as a whole and often - if not always - give me much more work than I intended to have when I started the project in the first place . After another evaluation of the updated kit and instructions everything is set and becomes ready for download. We then buy several tons of coffee powder and continue with the next project.

A different approach could be setting up a pipeline: 3D model creation, texturing, unfolding, first instructions, alpha test, final evaluation (incl. proof reading). This might result in speeding up the model creation but this needs to overcome certain logistic obstacles. For example, time is the most deciding factor. If one step is delayed all of the other steps will be, too. To overcome this is might be necessary to have a group of people who know how to make a paper model so that one could take over if the other is occupied. However, that means that everyone needs to be able to operate the same programs so that the working files can be edited and read by everyone involved. We once had this on the Jay's Galactica is lonely thread. This thread brought me to the forum and was the reason for me to make my own paper models.

 

[zathros]

Actually, in very many ways there are group builds in this forum, overtly and privately. I know what you mean, though, a dedicated subject project.
I also think it would be a great idea. The hardest part would be selecting who does what part, and if that part isn't up to standard, all involved must realize they could be asked to redesign it, or another participant may have already done so. It may unintentionally generate some bad feelings. I think if a group of people decided among themselves to do such a group project, that would be fine, but Zealot, in whole, would just watch, offer opinions and suggestions as is done in every other thread. It could not be an official "Zealot" project for the aforementioned reasons.

There is nothing stopping anyone from doing a group project. I do wonder though, suppose you set up a group, and someone in a couple of weeks wants to join. The only way would be to have the group open. If, let's say, 5 people got together, and posted they were going to work on a project together, did their work at home, like always, and posted update threads, you would have a workable solution and answer to your query. It would have to be said if the group makes a post with the members names in the group. That makes it closed. I see nothing wrong with that. People will post in the thread, as they do in every other thread, whether they like it or not, or suggest fixes to apparent errors, of their judgement, and opinion thereof.


Otherwise, it could just end up being a big "clusterf*ck" and I won't allow that. So you have your parameters to work with.

There, all set.

 

[zathros]

Seraphim, we are truly honoured by your wise words! Thank you very much!

Well, if I understand you correctly what you are proposing is different than a traditional group build in which several indiviuals build the same model like what we have done with UHU02's Viper. @Rhaven Blaack and I have formed a team to develop new models. Even though our focus is scifi we are not afraid to tackle other themes. Over the years we have developed a nice workflow which goes like this: I design a 3D model, unfold and texture it. If I have the time I do the alpha test to make necessary adjustments to the parts and instructions. If my time is scarce the first draft of the kit is sent to Rhaven who does the test instead. Having another person who is not involved in the design process do the test is an ideal way to find out if the instructions are clear enough and if the parts assemble in the desired fashion. He then gives me regular updates on the build including pictures of the build steps which are used to clarify steps or update the preliminary CG pictures and written descriptions. He informs me about anything that might need to be changed and optimized. His suggestions improve the kit as a whole and often - if not always - give me much more work than I intended to have when I started the project in the first place . After another evaluation of the updated kit and instructions everything is set and becomes ready for download. We then buy several tons of coffee powder and continue with the next project.

A different approach could be setting up a pipeline: 3D model creation, texturing, unfolding, first instructions, alpha test, final evaluation (incl. proof reading). This might result in speeding up the model creation but this needs to overcome certain logistic obstacles. For example, time is the most deciding factor. If one step is delayed all of the other steps will be, too. To overcome this is might be necessary to have a group of people who know how to make a paper model so that one could take over if the other is occupied. However, that means that everyone needs to be able to operate the same programs so that the working files can be edited and read by everyone involved. We once had this on the Jay's Galactica is lonely thread. This thread brought me to the forum and was the reason for me to make my own paper models.

That, to me, would lead to what I don't think is workable. It would have to be a small group. Most design programs export to any file extension. Read my decision on this, it covers all basis and is the way that this will move forward. The "Team" would design their issues through P.M.'s, (or emails) but not on the forum. They could always ask for someone outside to help, like you Revelle-Fan, as your work speaks for itself, but the group would have to be closed and come to a consensus before moving on a decision in the forum. We, as a forum, stay out of it. We give the "Team" the place to post their project, and the accolades.

"So Say We All!"
(me, in this case)

 

[seraphim]

Ahh wisest of wise ones i thanky--ohh you get the idea guys lmao
The thought(s) i had were something i probably shouldve been a bit more specific about but i get where youre coming from. My thinking was along the lines of *for example* a card kit of a 'Star Wars' ship again *for example* lets say 2 or 3 ships - with the most popular being the subject. Then once this is chosen, people submit basic ideas for the shape/structure etc, with again the most popular/sensible/practical being moved forward for refining, etc etc. (please note the *for examples* used and no mention of a shrinkray)
My intent was that as a forum, people may be interested in seeing the process of an idea development under a reasonably casual umbrella that could result in a finished article that Zealot as a whole would be the credited ....er.....creators of lol. Nothing serious, just a fun melding of minds to do a learny groupy thing, but you guys are the authorities and ultimately, for me what you say goes. My thought was that we have a huge variety of skill levels and abilities and creativeness here not to mention experience. I dont think any one of us (athough these days im not so sure as the work here is awesome to the point of otherworldly) have mastered all the skills or tools used in the process of creating designing and building (i know i am far from that point lol) and so a 'pooling' of skills to get something seen through.
Probably why there are Wise Ones and us mere Minions

 

[zathros]

You have a great idea. Your previous post (to this one), has clarified your intent. I believe if you start off by finding your partners, you will be off to a great start. Any and all of us will be willing to help you anywhere you might find issues, but it will for your partners to design and build the model. With a consensus, your partners can ask for whatever it needs towards the completion of your project, from the forum in general. That is the inclusiveness that may get you the results you desire.

Time to decide who you want as team members. Maybe you will have to select the genre, or ask people first to join you. Maybe your team will suggest a different genre. These are tough things to decide. Be fluid and flexible. I would advise using the P.M. system to let the people you select know they are selected. Keep things that you think may offend private. Not being selected should not be construed as a negative by any member. It is just a choice you have made. I'd stick to around 5 partners at the most, that's just a suggestion, though. Have fun, that's the main thing, make it fun and interesting. Ears open, eyes click!

I look forward to reading what you come up with. Feel free to contact me by P.M. any time you desire for any reason.

 

[Revell-Fan]

Not being selected should not be construed as a negative by any member. It is just a choice you have made. I'd stick to around 5 partners at the most, that's just a suggestion, though. Have fun, that's the main thing, make it fun and interesting.

I think these are the most important aspects. You should start with a simple topic at first to see how it goes, to allow everyone involved to get accustomed to what has to be done. The project should show progress in relatively short time frames which keeps up motivation. Nothing can be more frustrating than a project that is being dragged out for months and years. Let your hearts speak on the matter.

Of course you can't determine how long a project will take. There are many deciding factors, like time and obstacles which you may encounter in the details you haven't thought of.

 

[zathros]

To add to Reveal-Fan wrote, I add that it must be remembered that some parts may be much harder than others. This is where tricks to use from Revelle Fan and my self, and quite a few others, can help you expedite your project.

 

[seraphim]

Hmmm quite alot to think on. Maybe a member poll? See if anyone would be interested - what people feel they could bring to the party *ahem-shrinkrayhinhint-ahem*

 

[zathros]

Member poles could come down to making a decision. Start the thread, take the first five people who wish to join your team. If a couple more shows up, grab them. Then you just gained have a team A thank you all, and you'll be done with it. 7 would give you a margin if some have to drop out for whatever reason, the first one will be the genre, that would be the first post, followed with your intention, to grab the first 5 to 7 people who express interest. If someone states they have to drop out, never ask why. Thank them for their participation, that way you won't get an answer you don't like or that is inappropriate, because if the thread blows up, I will delete it. Just so you know, not a threat, it's just that I do not allow pissing contests or arguments, and we don't have them anymore here, but this could inadvertently be a fertile ground for one. I think you would be a great team leader, judging by your sincerity, and earnest attitude.

People make mistakes and errors, that called an accident, and is never acted upon as a violation unless there is ill intent, then a warning will swiftly follow. I keep my P.M.'s to people private. That's why we are here, to help and guide. I may not build and post models at all, but I do a lot of guiding, and helping, it's just that if I help someone, I do it under the condition that they do not mention me, or include me in the credits. I like being in the background. At times, I have taken huge personal hits for this forum, and I would do it again, in a heartbeat. We have an astounding group of people here. I'll fight the fight, I enjoy taking on interlopers, it does not bother me, and as the slings and arrows bounce off of me increasingly, I know we have won.

Mr. "Tank Shrink'em ray" is far too busy. That is, if we are thinking about the same person. We may have different people in mind, though.

 

[seraphim]

Member poles could come down to making a decision. Start the thread, take the first five people who wish to join your team. If a couple more shows up, grab them. Then you just gained have a team A thank you all, and you'll be done with it. 7 would give you a margin if some have to drop out for whatever reason, the first one will be the genre, that would be the first post, followed with your intention, to grab the first 5 to 7 people who express interest. If someone states they have to drop out, never ask why. Thank them for their participation, that way you won't get an answer you don't like or that is inappropriate, because if the thread blows up, I will delete it. Just so you know, not a threat, it's just that I do not allow pissing contests or arguments, and we don't have them anymore here, but this could inadvertently be a fertile ground for one. I think you would be a great team leader, judging by your sincerity, and earnest attitude.

People make mistakes and errors, that called an accident, and is never acted upon as a violation unless there is ill intent, then a warning will swiftly follow. I keep my P.M.'s to people private. That's why we are here, to help and guide. I may not build and post models at all, but I do a lot of guiding, and helping, it's just that if I help someone, I do it under the condition that they do not mention me, or include me in the credits. I like being in the background. At times, I have taken huge personal hits for this forum, and I would do it again, in a heartbeat. We have an astounding group of people here. I'll fight the fight, I enjoy taking on interlopers, it does not bother me, and as the slings and arrows bounce off of me increasingly, I know we have won.

Mr. "Tank Shrink'em ray" is far too busy. That is, if we are thinking about the same person. We may have different people in mind, though.

lol .....i know of no such 'Mr Shrink'em Ray'........ to be honest, if a group build started to turn into a pissing match then it would be over, from my stand point - the idea was there so people could have fun, learn from each other and maybe produce something Zealoty at the end - no competitiveness required. I need to have a think, and perhaps set out the suggestion and some ground rules for all involved in said project. Ultimately i am just a cog in the machine that is run by the powers that be and what the man says, goes. Hmmm.......what to do.....

 

[seraphim]

so been off for a bit, might be a while longer yet got some health issues going on, but will be back asap.

 

[Rhaven Blaack]

I am sorry to hear that you are having health issues. Unfortunately, that is an unfortunate side effect of getting older. I should know. I am dealing with several of my own.
With that being said, I hope that whatever health issue that you are dealing with, will subside soon, and that you make a strong and speedy recovery. Take all of the time you need. We'll keep the lights on!

 

[mijob]

I hope you will feeling better soon.

 

[zathros]

Take care of yourself. A heads up every now and then would be nice, make sure you do what you need to. Best of health to you.

 

[Revell-Fan]

You are always welcome here. Take your time and send us a "Hello" from time to time, please. The most important thing is that you are getting better soon.