Manufacturing in China

One thing I know for a fact, the labels on model railroad boxes can be decieving. While Intermountains steam engines, cab forwards, are totally made in China, the cars are not. The car parts are made in Colorado, packed in large boxes, shipped to China where they are assembled and shipped back in boxes that say "Made in China". Very misleading. I would imagine there are other companies with this same arrangement.

Dick
Texas Chief
 
I think it a ploy when companies say the costs for the consumer is lower on goods made over seas. If that were the case why then dont we see lower prices on consumer goods?

Ipds and hidef tv, and Lionel engines prices are not cheaper today than in the past.

They cost the seller less and us more. The savings goes in the pocket of the middleman.:cry:
 
13% of the US work force is Union. So in effect Unions have no impact on the total picture. They are just a very small part of the work force concentrated in certain parts of the workforce.

Now for people working I guess that is a back yard thing. I live in a rural area and we are at full employment and the biggest problem is not enough workers. for example the owner and friend of mine found a few of his employees sleeping. Of course he raised all heck and kicked some back sides. I asked if he fired them. His words were who would I get to replace them?

For the first time that I can ever remember we have migrants working at the dairy farms. I pay $25/hr for part time help and I can't find a single person. I was paying $12.50 last year. This was the first time I had no help I couldn't find a single person who needed the money.

Now we may be rural but the area does have over 100,000 people in the metro area of the largest city 15 miles from me.
 
I had to run so I couldn't finish my thoughts. China is expanding faster than any other country. This will result in higher manufacturing cost in the future. I still say pocket of Africa are ripe for manufactures to move too. In fact they will be forced to move as they did over the past 20 years. You all do remember when everything was made in Japan & South Korea.

Lets face it this is a hobby and most of us have a walk away price. I'm an O scale guy where the average rolling stock that I like is $40 and the engines are $350. That is pretty close to my walk away price. If that happens then I will concentrate on cheaper post war items.
 
nkp174 said:
This is my final post in this thread...as it is now become politics (and I'm partially to blame :()
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I like that idea, I will follow suit, posting only once more to address some questions raised about the figures I cited. Then it's back to card modeling. :-)

The statistics you're quoting do not tell the full story...or anything close to it

I'm certain that 30mil jobs have gone...but more than 30mil new jobs have been created...the unemployment rate is lower now than it was throughout most of the 80's!
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It's true that jobs have also been created in that same period, something like 50 million, but many of them pay less than the jobs that vanished. Factoring in population growth, and the pie didn't grow much. (Un)employment statistics won't tell you how many workers ended up in lower-paying jobs or working two jobs (or have given up and are no longer seeking a job).

Now...the top of society has gotten richer...the middle has gotten slightly better...an increase of between $5k and $10k per household adjusted to 2003 dollars...and the bottom has gone up by about a $1-2k.
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The bloom is a bit off the rose if you consider two factors that have helped increase household income figures for working class families ... neither of which are particularly good news for American workers.

First, many working class households are simply working more hours per year (through taking second jobs, etc).

Second, household income statistics include the value of benefits, which has been pumped up recently by the escalating cost of healthcare. In other words, if your employer-provided insurance paid $200 for your check-up last year, and this year the same checkup cost $300, according to household income figures your income went up $100 - although you won't have any more money in your pocket.


If you look up the numbers...you'll find that the average American is wealthier than the average european, south korean, or japanese person.
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True ... but I would say there is a lot more to quality of life than just money. In general European workers work a lot less hours per year and have much more vacation time (not to mention public healthcare, etc). I believe American workers now have the least vacation of any industrialized nation.

Here's some OECD figures for 2001 (latest I could get on short notice):

Average Hours Worked Per Year

1346 - Netherlands
1467 - Germany
1532 - France
1606 - Italy
1603 - Sweden
1711 - UK
1816 - Spain
1821 - USA


Average Number Vacation Days Per Year (source: World Tourism Organization)

42 - Italy
37 - France
35 - Germany
34 - Brazil
28 - UK
26 - Canada
15 - Japan, Korea
13 - USA

The upshot is that Americans in general have a few more bucks in their pockets, but less time to enjoy life and their families.


Okay, back to card modeling and model railroading!! Thanks to all for the informative posts throughout this thread, and for maintaining the typical civil and gentlemanly atmosphere of this wonderful BBS. :-)
 
Wow

doctorwayne said:
Companies base themselves, for tax purposes, where it's most advantageous, and likewise, contract-out the work to places where it's most cost effective. Governments in North American, at all levels, tout "global economy", and downplay the loss of manufacturing (and its attendant jobs) by playing up the growth in the technological fields. Manufacturing is not "eco-friendly", so is better done where "we" don't have to deal with the environmental consequences. Unfortunately, many techno jobs are not of the high-paying type that many imagine them to be. Our society has lost or is losing the ability to manufacture consumer goods and also the abilty to pay for domestically-produced consumer goods. In my opinion, large scale manufacturing, such as existed in most of the first-world nations for the better part of the 19th and 20th centuries, will not return here until we become the place with the cheapest labour and the fewest environmental and safety regulations. We have a ways to go before the cycle begins again.

Wayne
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Dr. Wayne, You put into words my thought's of the last 10 years or so, you're right, we have a long way to go before the cycle begins again.wall1
 
In My Opnion

announce1 The Corporations of all of the products, American or whatever, that are having the products manufactured in China, paying very low labor rates, and then they are marking up the prices for North American Retail Markets by several hundred percent, where is the fairness here?

I have found that if you buy from Chinese markets directly you can save a bundle, ie. working lighted lamp post's HO Gauge, bulbs included, 60 for $17.95 plus shipping of $15.00, still a fantastic price compared to buying 2 for $10.95 from local online hobby retailers. Yes it is sad, that North American Manufacturers are loosing business, but they themselves are in turn no longer having the products mfgd. here, they were responsible for going out of the country to boost profits, and HOW THEY ARE BOOSTING PROFITS.:curse:
 
Did you ever stop to think what the reason is for all those people wanting to come to the USA when we don't give out free benefits like Europe and all of our jobs don't pay a living wage.

Heck they should be flocking to every country but the USA.:mrgreen: The truth is they know where the best jobs are located and the best opportunities for success, they are not stupid people.announce1 In fact they know where the best chance is to make a good life is.

I don't know but I don't think that is a political statement.

The hard truth about China manufacturing is simple. It is not about wealthy corporations but it is YOU!!!!!!!! Your the best paid and most wealthiest Americans ever. However you all want the cheapest price and have no care about where it comes from.

So something has to give you just can't demand higher wages, full benefits and demand rock bottom prices. When you do, manufacturing has no choice but to find a cheaper work force.

I ask you all one question. Why is Walmart so successful?

I bet the answer isn't because they sell 100% American products that have price levels high enough to support American workers.

So the problem with American manufactures just might be the American public and not American corporations.

Just my common sense unpolitical views of China Manufacturing.
 
Renovo PPR said:
I ask you all one question. Why is Walmart so successful?

I bet the answer isn't because they sell 100% American products that have price levels high enough to support American workers.
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Your right
It's because we're all so underpaid that it's the only thing we can afford now that our good paying jobs are overseas.
Now that the $8.00/hour job I used to have is now going to a 50¢/day worker, the prices at Wal-Mart have dropped soooooo much that I can now afford the little extras that make life great.

BTW, Would you like Fries with that sir???
I'm getting rich here at McDougals.

We aren't shown the thousands of elderly and fixed income retirees who leave the US annually. Greener pastures South of the border lure them. San Jose Costa Rica is as cosmopolitan as can be, with radio, tv and newspapers broadcasting and published in english. Where their retirement dollar will buy them more than a can of Alpo for dinner. A 3 course meal goes for about 85¢ US.
Mexico and Central America has one of the fastest growing expatriot american migrations that there is.
 
Renovo PPR said:
Did you ever stop to think what the reason is for all those people wanting to come to the USA when we don't give out free benefits like Europe and all of our jobs don't pay a living wage.

Heck they should be flocking to every country but the USA.:mrgreen: The truth is they know where the best jobs are located and the best opportunities for success, they are not stupid people.announce1 In fact they know where the best chance is to make a good life is.

I don't know but I don't think that is a political statement.
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I'd have to agree with you to a certain degree, however I'm not so sure that it is the knowledge of economics that attract people to this country, especially illegal immigrants. I suspect that it has more to do with the "American Dream".
 
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