HMCS Ottawa II - build progress

[B-Manic]

Here are some pix of the HMCS Ottawa II build I am working on. I started with the HMS Glowworm kit from GreMir.

The ships are almost identical so there are not many changes to make. Hull number, Maple Leaf on funnel and hedgehog projector. I am presently trying to locate info on the type and location of the hedgehog projector.

 

[Gregory Shoda]

Excellent work so far. Looks like very clean workmanship.

 

[Rick Thomson]

Ahhrrrgggg...let me take a pet peeve out for a run...it is either HMCS (Or HMS, HMAS, HMNZS) Whatever, or the Whatever, but it is never the HMCS Whatever.

I had this knocked into my head by an Uncle, a Cousin and a Godfather as a kid, all of them had served with the Grey Funnel lines. Had Canada remained in the carrier business, I might have as well.

 

[michik]

I don't know whether this is of any help to you. It's taken from Alan Ravens "Warship Perspectives, Comouflage Volume Four: Royal Navy". I take it that Alan spent a lot of time with the research work, so it's probably quite accurate. Keep up the good work!

Oh Rick, experts....

 

[B-Manic]

Ahhrrrgggg...let me take a pet peeve out for a run...it is either HMCS (Or HMS, HMAS, HMNZS) Whatever, or the Whatever, but it is never the HMCS Whatever.

I had this knocked into my head by an Uncle, a Cousin and a Godfather as a kid, all of them had served with the Grey Funnel lines. Had Canada remained in the carrier business, I might have as well.

Rick I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

I have been in the Canadian Navy for almost 30 years and the naming convention is HMCS SHIPNAME or HMC Ship SHIPNAME. the shipname should be all caps.

 

[B-Manic]

I don't know whether this is of any help to you. It's taken from Alan Ravens "Warship Perspectives, Comouflage Volume Four: Royal Navy". I take it that Alan spent a lot of time with the research work, so it's probably quite accurate. Keep up the good work!

Oh Rick, experts....

Thanks for the picture, now I have a 3rd possible configuration. Hopefully the museum can provide some definitive information.

 

[barry]

Ottawa

Thats an excellent hull

 

[Rick Thomson]

<Rick I don't understand the point you are trying to make.>

Perhaps I didn't make it clear, but think of what HMCS stands for?

Doesn't the Her Majesties Canadian Ship sound somewhat strange?

My dark blue relatives were very emphatic on that point, so much so that even this light blue type was turned in to a bit of a fanatic on the subject.

Be that as it may, nice looking build that you have there so far.

Regards
Rick

 

[beejay]

Hello B-Manic
Re HMCS OTTAWA (formerly HMS GRIFFIN)
Page 6 of the book Amazon to Ivanhoe, British Standard Destroyers of the 1930s, by John English, shows a very good photo of her as converted to an A/S Destroyer in RCN service (sans Maple Leaf on fore-funnel) and clearly shows Hedgehog sited where "A" mounting formerly was. I do not know what the Mark was, as when I was in service, Limbo had long since replaced Hedgehog but there might be an ex O.A. out there who would recognise it from the housing. Another chance is that as she was converted at Thornycrofts, Southampton and that company is still in existance, they might still have full details of her conversion.
The photo is also at variance with the ilustration from the Warships Perspective book in that her pennant number, H31, is clearly shown, as is also her Western Approaches camouflage scheme.
Incidentally, not to nit-pick, and after 30 years service (Good Morning Chief!) you must know, the point about the name made by Rick is valid in that tradition demanded H.M. Ships were never called, example THE H.M.S. Griffin or THE H.M.C.S. OTTAWA, but simply H.M.S. Griffin or H.M.C.S. OTTAWA or, when omitting the prefix, the Griffin or the Ottawa

 

[beejay]

Hello B-Manic
You are in luck!!. I have found this in my notes, (H.M.Destroyers are a big interest of mine).For sippers, I offer you the following info I have in my files:-

H.M.S. GRIFFIN A/S Conversion

1. Y Mounting replaced by 4 Depth Charge Throwers and stowage.
2. A Mounting replaced by Mk 10 Hedgehog.
3. Aft quadruple 21" Torpedo tubes removed
4. Six 20mm Oerlikon fitted, 2 located port and starboard of site of removed aft Torpedo tubes, 2 replaced .05 mg mountings midships and two in bridge wings, port and starboard.
5. H.F. D/F (High Frequency Direction Finder) fitted
6. Main mast struck and replaced by pole mast
7. Short ensign gaff and aerial stand fitted on searchlight platform
8. Aft funnel shortened
9. Crows nest added
10. Range Finder and Director Control Tower on bridge landed and replaced by S.W.R.D.F. lantern
11. A.W.D.R.F. added mast head
12. R.D.F. Aerial mounted on bridge front
13. 4 Carley floats fitted, one port and one starboard under the bridge wings, 2 midships on deck
14.Western Approaches camouflage applied

Several excellent photos of her are available from the R.C.N. Archives

As a footnote, whilst in R.C.N. service, she shared in the sinking of three U-Boats in 1944
Yours aye
beejay

 

[B-Manic]

Whoops

ops: Sorry about that. I missed that point entirely. Doh!

Must be the solar flares, yeah, that's it.

I agree , the 'the' is a bad habit and I shall discipline myself immediately.

 

[B-Manic]

A little more progress. This model has very good fit and I have experienced no problems. If I had one complaint about this design it is the layout of parts on the various pages. The parts for a single structure can be spread out over several pages. I could understand this if the parts were very large but for the most part they are in the small to tiny range.

 

[Clashster]

Nice! Great job on the uniformity of those rolled parts!!

Chris

 

[beejay]

Hello B-Manic.
Great progress, and very precise building of "X" gun mounting but please note that for accuracy, the aft set of TT were landed before she entered service with RCN and 20mm single Oerlikons were fitted on deck, port and starboard of their location, as per my fitting list that I sent to you earlier.
Very best regards
beejay

 

[Jim Krauzlis]

That's a very clean looking model, B-Manic... really excellent job!

Cheers!
Jim

 

[B-Manic]

Hello B-Manic.
Great progress, and very precise building of "X" gun mounting but please note that for accuracy, the aft set of TT were landed before she entered service with RCN and 20mm single Oerlikons were fitted on deck, port and starboard of their location, as per my fitting list that I sent to you earlier.
Very best regards
beejay

thanks beejay. The aft TT and X mount are just dry fits.
It's the build them all and fit the best to the model theory. I appreciate all your input and the information you posted. I have started scratch building the depth charge rack(s).

A link to the photos in the RCN archive would be nice.

 

[beejay]

Hello B-Manic
I think that this is the link that will be able to supply you with copies of the photos that I mentioned:-

http://www.naval-museum.mb.ca/ships/index.htm

If there are any other queries that I can help you with, please give me a shout as I am really looking forward to seeing the completed model
Yours aye
beejay

 

[B-Manic]

Hello B-Manic
You are in luck!!. I have found this in my notes, (H.M.Destroyers are a big interest of mine).For sippers, I offer you the following info I have in my files:-

H.M.S. GRIFFIN A/S Conversion

1. Y Mounting replaced by 4 Depth Charge Throwers and stowage.
2. A Mounting replaced by Mk 10 Hedgehog.
3. Aft quadruple 21" Torpedo tubes removed
4. Six 20mm Oerlikon fitted, 2 located port and starboard of site of removed aft Torpedo tubes, 2 replaced .05 mg mountings midships and two in bridge wings, port and starboard.
5. H.F. D/F (High Frequency Direction Finder) fitted
6. Main mast struck and replaced by pole mast
7. Short ensign gaff and aerial stand fitted on searchlight platform
8. Aft funnel shortened
9. Crows nest added
10. Range Finder and Director Control Tower on bridge landed and replaced by S.W.R.D.F. lantern
11. A.W.D.R.F. added mast head
12. R.D.F. Aerial mounted on bridge front
13. 4 Carley floats fitted, one port and one starboard under the bridge wings, 2 midships on deck
14.Western Approaches camouflage applied

Several excellent photos of her are available from the R.C.N. Archives

As a footnote, whilst in R.C.N. service, she shared in the sinking of three U-Boats in 1944
Yours aye
beejay

My research indicates this configuration is from the end of the war, after her refit in 1944. When delivered to the RCN she had

3, 4.75s
6, Orlikons
1, set TTs
1, 3" HA gun
2, depth charge racks
and most of the changes you state above.

During the refit the after house was also apparently turned 180 degrees to make room for a radar.

I'll post a picture of the 1943 configuration later.

There is a lot of misinformation about this ship out there. Some references even mix up Ottawa I and OTTAWA II.

Still looking . . .

 

[beejay]

Hello B-Manic,
Establishing the exact wartime configuation of any R.N. Destroyer on a given date can sometimes be be a daunting task, partly due to the scarcity of photographic evidence and partly due to the fact that much wartime documentation has been destroyed over the years.
As a very refreshing contrast, the RCN have kept very comprehensive records of all of their ships so I am positive that the information you seek is available.
In the 1960s The World Ship Society published a comprehensive series of descriptions of various classes of WW2 R.N. Fleet Destroyers. The "G" Class was featured in March 1964 and the details for Griffin that I sent you are listed there. From other sources it can be confirmed that the aft TT was landed as early as 1940 and replaced by a single 3'' HAA mounting, as were the surviving others of her class. The aft funnel was also cut down at that time and mainmast struck to increase the AA arcs for the that mounting.
After very demanding war service with the 1st DF at Norway and 10th DF in the Mediterranean as a Fleet Destroyer, Griffin was transferred to the RCN on 20.3.1943 to serve as an A/S Destroyer and re-named HMCS OTTAWA. If the exact date of re-fit could be found it would help but I think that she was refitted somwhere between Oct 1942 and Jan 1943,, because on that latter date she joined the Special Escort Force at Liverpool. I think that if you will going for historical accuracy the best solution would be to get hold of one of the photos that I mentioned to you earlier and build exactly as she looks on it.
I am definitely looking forward to seeing this build progress!
Yours aye
beejay

 

[B-Manic]

Beejay - I made it to the museum and got a picture of her 1943 configuration. I will be returning to see what else they have for this time period. I have also contacted a colleague at the Fleet Maintenance Facility in Halifax. He is going to check the drawing office archives to see if they have anything (not too promising). I will also see if the local library has the books you suggested.

So far it looks like the 3 main guns version is winning out. I like it best anyway. Must be the gunner in me.

Cheers