speed limits in yards

L

lester perry

the rail yard I worked next to up till last July the main went either through or next it couldn,t tell for sure from my view. it is at Newark De. Amtrak actualy owns the main line and Chrysler the yard. high speed amtrac acella runs through it several times a day at very high speed. N/S has access to it for frieght to Chrysler only at night. they have been fighting (begging) Amtrak for day time rights figured into amtraks schedual for several years the answer is NO!!!!!
 

trainz_dude24

Member
Nov 21, 2007
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Speed limits differ

:thumb: I've got MTSS on my computer to. In a BNSF railyard you have to keep it at 20kph or lower. When hitching wagons, you have to keep it under 5kph. Also, when parking your train at the end of the track you should hit the barrier at 2kph.
 

trainz_dude24

Member
Nov 21, 2007
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Speed limit for NPRR

The speed limit for the main line on the NPRR is 110mph, on sidings it's about the same unless a westbound train coming toward your eastbound is there then you must stop.announce1 In rail yards your supposed to go 20mph at fastest. And when hitching wagons, you must go at 5mph or less.announce1
 

ajroland

Member
Sep 5, 2005
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53
Eastman, Georgia
ns speed

On the NS in yard limits you can run restricted speed not to exceed 15mph. There may be some exceptions. However, with the possibilty of a banner being put up in a curve the train would be creeping. Restricted speed simply put requires that you be able to stop short of any obstruction.
 

acsoosub

Member
Apr 11, 2008
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Guelph, ON
vanderheide.ca
Actually I've known of many instances where yard limits exist in harmony with a signal system. One company's Yard limit rules indicated that 3rd, 4th class and extra trains may use the main track in yard limits without train order authority providing they clear the time of first and second class trains. Additionally a clear signal in yard limits is one indication that the main track is clear in yard limits(but only to the next signal). In most instances train dispatchers cannot tell you if the main track is clear because by the nature of yard limits he doesn't control those movements.
This only applies with automatic block signals. (From Romford (jct between lines to Ottawa/Montreal and Toronto) to Sudbury in the 1970s was directional ABS (each track signalled in one direction only) and the signals went right into yard limits. According to a footnote in CP's timetable, you still needed permission from the yardmaster for movements within Sudbury yard limits.)
CTC system and yard limits are mutually exclusive.
 

acsoosub

Member
Apr 11, 2008
58
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Guelph, ON
vanderheide.ca
Really, Why do you think that?

C
Because yard limits gives you permission to use the main track, and under CTC you need specific permission from the dispatcher to work that block. And it's common for a train to ask for a light from the dispatcher if they need extra headroom to pass that signal.

Here's the text of the CROR rule for yard limits. Note the first line.

CROR said:
93. Yard Limits

(This rule does not apply in CTC)
(a) A train or engine is authorized to use the main track within yard limits.
(b) Trains and engines must operate at reduced speed within yard limits, unless the main track is known to be clear. An ABS signal indication does not relieve a train or engine from the requirement of operating at reduced speed.
EXCEPTION: In ABS, unless otherwise directed by special instructions, or unless the train or engine has stopped or has been otherwise delayed in the block, “Clear Signal”, Rule 405, may be accepted by such train or engine as an indication that the track is clear, but only to the next signal or Block End sign.
(c) Each yard limit sign and advance sign will be reflectorized. Outside ABS, an advance sign will be placed at least one mile in advance of each yard limit sign. At locations where the placement of an advance sign or signs is not practicable at the required distance, it will be so indicated in special instructions.
93.1 Additional Restriction in Yard Limits

On a subdivision specified in the time table, in the application of reduced speed as required by Rule 93, a train or engine must also be prepared to stop short of a switch not properly lined.
 

kutler

Member
Oct 30, 2007
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CROR hasn't been around all that long.

Because yard limits gives you permission to use the main track, and under CTC you need specific permission from the dispatcher to work that block. And it's common for a train to ask for a light from the dispatcher if they need extra headroom to pass that signal.

Here's the text of the CROR rule for yard limits. Note the first line.
I'm very familiar with that line. Where does CPR have yard limits where CROR is in effect? I know one place. If you're talking Yard limits and practical application on CP , it's got to be UCOR.

During UCOR you might have found many examples where CTC and yard limits co-existed. Yard limits does indeed give engines permission to proceed in either direction within it's limits, but it doesn't supersede CTC rules. Engine would require 268, 266 or signal indication to enter block.
Think "Switching Zone" in CROR for an idea of what YL in CTC meant.
 

Dave1905

Member
May 27, 2007
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First you have to define what you mean by "in a yard" and then you have to pick an era because the speeds and rules changed over time.

If you are on the main track then you could be in yard limits. If you are on ANY other track, other than a main track, you are on "track other than a main track" and governed by the rules reagrding movement on those tracks. So if you are on the MAIN track you could be in yard limits, if you are on any YARD track then you are not in yard limits. Yard limits ONLY applies to the main track.

Most rule books have a set speed for tracks other than a main track. It varies from 5 to 20 mph and usually has the requirement that the train or engine be able to stop short of anything else (pre-1980's) or within half the range of vision (post 1980's) of anything else. See your favorite rule book for exact wording.

In yard limits, most pre-1980's rule books permitted first class (or 1st and 2nd class) train to operate at maximum track speed. So if the maximum speed was 60 mph then could come down the main track at 60 mph. All other trains typically operate at "restricted" speed, which is a speed not to exceed a maximum and that will enable a train or engine to be be able to stop short of anything else (pre-1980's) or within half the range of vision (post 1980's) of anything else. The maximum speed ranged from 15 to 25 mph by railroad and rule book. There were exceptions in areas with block signals (ABS/APB) on some roads that permitted a train other than the excepted classes (1st or 1st and 2nd) to operate at maximum speed. Some had wording such as if the "route was known to be clear" or others had that if the signal indications were more favorable than approach they could operate at maximum speed. So if you are on an extra train coming into yard limits on a clear signal and the maximum speed for the sub is 60 mph, then you could proceed down the main at 60 mph. If the signal was approach or worse, you would have to slow to restricted speed.

Dave H.
 

Dave1905

Member
May 27, 2007
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On the NS in yard limits you can run restricted speed not to exceed 15mph. There may be some exceptions. However, with the possibilty of a banner being put up in a curve the train would be creeping. Restricted speed simply put requires that you be able to stop short of any obstruction.
Probably rather than "stop short", its stop "within one half the range of vision" of the object. Somewhere in the late 70's, early 80's pretty much all the roads went from the stop short to 1/2 the range of vision definition.

In any case, "you break it, you bought it" applies.

Dave H.