USS Selfridge DD 357 1/200 Scale

Discussion in 'Ship & Watercraft Models' started by treadhead1952, Sep 21, 2012.

  1. vbsargent

    vbsargent Member

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    I think that I'm being dense here. But I don't think that I'm quite grasping how you are filling between the formers. Are you taking multiple wedges of balsa and gluing them in, or are you taking thin(ish) strips, say 1/8 to 1/4" and gluing them in?

    I've seen other ship builders use expanding foam (it's the DEVIL!) as well as closed cell foam and even florists foam. But they either spray it in in the case of expanding foam (Yes, it really is the devil) or they cut blocks to fill the voids.

    Thanks for clarifying this as it will help with both my U-boat and Campbeltown/Montgomery builds.
  2. Zathros

    Zathros Guest

    I got the impression that he us using blocks and squares of balsa, then sanding them to form the bulk of the shape which allows for a greater surface to glue onto, and a much heartier model. I only say this as I wish to hear Treadhead's answer to see if I am close? :)
  3. treadhead1952

    treadhead1952 Member

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    Hi Guys,

    I start with strips of card or card board on the underside of the hull form working my way out to either end. This stabilizes the form from the bottom and starts the stiffening process. When I get out to near the ends, usually to within three or four sections remaining, I switch to balsa wood pieces trimmed to fit in the section spaces and sanded down to match the contours of the hull at those areas. With the bottom stable I move on to the top using more balsa wood blocks to be able to easily sand the edges to match the hull profile and deck shape, usually a little bit of camber is on the deck plates to allow things to drain off properly through the scuppers. Once all this work is done I plate the hull starting with the bottom plates, moving on to the hull sides and then to the decks. I can then handle the hull without fear of denting the sides or bottom in because it is no longer a hollow shell.

    As I work my way through the model you will get to see what I am doing. It is strictly personal preference in doing it this way mostly because I like to handle the model, looking at this angle and that as I work on it. When I first started making card models, I worked on the IJN Akizuki, one of the most gracefully shaped Japanese Destroyer hulls, got the hull all built up and then promptly dented the hull handling it. I keep it sitting on top of one of my book cases in just that shape to remind me of why I do what I do with these things.wall1:cry:

    One of these days, after getting the craft down a little better, I will revisit that ship model and build it up properly.
  4. oratios

    oratios New Member

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    Very well model and very well base:mrgreen:

    the model is from PRO-MODELS?
  5. shoki2000

    shoki2000 Active Member

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    The same model, in printed format can be purchased from Pro-Model.
  6. treadhead1952

    treadhead1952 Member

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    Thanks,

    And what Michael said.

    Actually I prefer Michaels' GreMir Models Edition since I can print out extra copies on my printer rather than be limited to what is presented in a booklet format or having to scan and copy off extra pages if I make an error (highly likely for me...:oops:).:thumb:
  7. Emanuele

    Emanuele Member

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    Well, it's the same for me,

    For the Pegaso I had to print three copies for each page (1mm lost here, another half too long there...).

    Very good Idea the Legos.... I will copy it.
  8. vbsargent

    vbsargent Member

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    Ahh . . . I think I understand what you are doing. Does this accurately depict what a cross section would look like with the cardboard strips?

    Attached Files:

  9. treadhead1952

    treadhead1952 Member

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    Hi vb,

    Yeppers, I do believe you have it.:thumb:

    As I said, I picked up this way of doing this from the guys on a German Card Model site. The added formers inside to help stiffen the structure and it works amazingly well. All of the ship models that I have built up like this have hulls that are more durable than any of the styrene models that I have built in the past, and there are a ton of those.

    [​IMG]

    Of course, some of them get a bit on the tiny size....

    [​IMG]
  10. Zathros

    Zathros Guest


    I like that! Really good method. :)
  11. vbsargent

    vbsargent Member

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    I think that I'll have to try this with my u-boat and Montgomery. Should make skinning much, much less painful and more likely to avoid the ribbing.

    Hmmmmm . . . . ribbing in WWI planes = good.
    Ribbing in ships and submarines = bad.
  12. treadhead1952

    treadhead1952 Member

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    Hi vb,

    While it does help to avoid the starved cow look with the ribs showing on the hull bottom plates and sides, don't forget to use the strips provided in most kits to go over the ribs themselves. These also help to hide them as well as soften the transistions from plate to plate.

    After adding all the "stuffing" that I use a good look with the Mark I Eyeball helps to show where any trimming and sanding is needed to smooth everything down, just don't overdo otherwise you will have undone all the work that you did up to that point. Looking forward to seeing your project come along.
  13. Zathros

    Zathros Guest

    I did a lot of blue water sailing, and I think people would be surprised how un-smooth these ships are.. Depending on the weather, temperature especially, these can expand and look rather smooth but look a little lumpy in ice cold weather, if it welded, the weld lines protrude and the panels are quite visible..The picture below is a classic example. There is nothing wrong with this ship.

    [​IMG]
  14. treadhead1952

    treadhead1952 Member

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    Hi Zathros,

    I have seen and had the same thing told to me by others. I mostly witnessed it on Naval ships that I was around during my service in the Marine Corps. By the same token replicating that delicate effect in a 1/200 or smaller scale vessel would take a mighty steady hand. Looking at the photo you have provided you would have to deal with the various levels of the ship and have knowledge of the shapes of the bulkheads, frames and other intimate details. "Oil Canning" as it is called, is a neat trick if you can pull it off, I have seen it done on a couple of really large scale RC controlled ship models that was pretty effective. They were in the range of 8 to 10 feet long though representing a scale along the lines of 1/28 th or so.
  15. Zathros

    Zathros Guest

    When I used to fly, you would see kit planes made in the Summer, all crinkled in the Winter! It is kind of ridiculous to do this on a model, but sometimes I like to point out to people who seem intimidated by ships, that they don't look perfect in reality, so go for it! :)
  16. treadhead1952

    treadhead1952 Member

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    Speaking of going for it, I have been.:mrgreen:

    I did some more slicing and dicing of card board, this material comes courtesy of Nike and Converse shoe boxes. I get them free when I go visit one of our mall locations so I have a steady supply. As I get nearer to the end sections I also start working on adding balsa wood pieces to them as well. They get glued in and then clamped down with some more card board over the top of the balsa wood, not glued, to keep the clamp from gouging the wood surfaces. Another session with the bottom and I should be ready to sand things down smooth before moving on to the top.

    [​IMG]

    You can see the bottom panel pieces in the back ground there, there is also another sheet that contains the strips that go over the ribs and under these plates as well. With all this extra material it is a very strong, lightweight structure once the out side plates and sections are added to the exterior.
  17. Zathros

    Zathros Guest

    I'm really looking forward to seeing this hull come together. It looks so strong, you could probably us aluminum flashing! :)
  18. treadhead1952

    treadhead1952 Member

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    Thanks Zathros,

    I got some time this afternoon after work to do a bit of sanding on the Selfridge hull. I started with my drill press and a sanding drum chucked on it to whittle away the biggest amount of balsa wood and high points on the card board filler strips. Once all that Aleenes' Tacky Glue had dried I was not too concerned about anything getting disturbed using machine tools. I switched to a piece of 80 grit open coat sand paper folded up to a handy size, about 4" X 2" to keep from sanding any divots between the formers. It didn't take long to shape things up.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And always, my favorite view on any ships' hull.

    [​IMG]

    I have three more sections that I will fill with some more card board strips and then I can turn my attentions to the top. This just gets filled with balsa wood blocks, no card board needed. I will go over the balsa wood filled bottom areas with a coat of filler putty one time just to make everything as smooth as I can prior to adding the card strips for the hull bottom plates, but I have to wait until the filler blocks are in place on the top to do this bit of work in the interests of keeping it all even all the way around.
  19. Zathros

    Zathros Guest

    Ah, an unprocessed paper hull, very nice! This is truly excellent modeling! :)
  20. treadhead1952

    treadhead1952 Member

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    Thanks Zathros,

    I finally got off my duff and added the last bits of card board to fill in the missing pieces on the bottom of the hull. With that done I can now turn it over and get started with the balsa wood filler pieces. Well, after I get a base set up. I will wait to tear down the Legos that I have set up as I do to add the bottom strips and plates.

    [​IMG]

    Normally, GreMir furnishes a nifty little base that you can simply cut out and assemble to hold the model upright. For some reason Maciej Poznanski, the author of this particular model nor Michael the owner of GreMir, added one to this one. It isn't a big deal, they do show the model sitting on a nicely done wooden base with a couple of brass rods supporting it which is what Maciej did with the original build that he did. Just out of curiousity, I purchased the Pro-Model copy of the kit so that I could check out any differences if there were any. There aren't, well other than the layout of the individual parts on various pages, the differences that you would deal with transferring the model from the original A4 European pages to the US A3 type pages that are easier for us to print out on this side of the pond.

    [​IMG]

    To answer my need for a base and to sort of keep things uniform in my collection of GreMir Model Ships, I printed out a copy of the HMS Savage base that comes in that kit. After scanning it into the computer and opening it with Paint I erased the printed Name Plate portion of the HMS Savage base and then doctored it up with a home brew USS Selfridge Name Plate. I will construct the base with balsa wood in between the various parts to make it a bit more substantial and that should do for my requirements for a base.

    [​IMG]