USS Pennsylvania

Discussion in 'Ship & Watercraft Models' started by jasco, Dec 28, 2006.

  1. jasco

    jasco Member

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    Ha ha! What I create I can also destroy!
    As promised, I tore all of the hull plates off and will give it a second try.:twisted:



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    I incurred some damage to the bulkheads on the upper side of the hull from all of the rolling around.



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    I relaminated the corners with cyanoacrylate glue and squeezed the chipboard with tweezers, producing corners that are tough enough to withstand any future abuse.



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    This time I very carefully sanded all of bulkheads and tried to bevel the edges to follow the lines of the hull. The first time around, I used 20# bond for the joining strips, but this time I’ll use paper that is the same weight as the hull plating to provide more support under the plating to avoid the narrow lumps produced by the bulkheads.

    All is once again ship shape and ready to go!



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  2. jasco

    jasco Member

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    Well, my friends, it is time for an update. On my second attempt at plating the hull I am working much more slowly and trying to think some problems through before I make too many mistakes.

    After careful sanding, I glued the connector strips directly to the bulkheads taking care to fill in along the edge of the deck so I didn't create a wavy pattern at the top of the plating by having two different levels of substrate. I sanded all of the joints of the connector strips to eliminate glue bumps under the plating.
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    Here are most of the hull plates carefully cut out and edge colored. Although I plan to paint the hull, All of that white just pokes me in the eye, and you never know, they may all fit perfectly and not need filler!
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    The hull plates should be formed as well as possible before gluing to the framework. Compound curves are difficult, but not impossible. I use a ¼” wood dowel that is sharpened on one end in a pencil sharpener and rounded over in a half-sphere on the other. I roll the parts held in my hand, adjusting the amount of curvature with the pressure of the stick and the cupping of my palm. With care and plenty of working the curve in alternating directions a compound curve can be worked into the piece. Care must be taken not to crease the part. If you do, it’s best just to start over with a newly printed part until you get the hang of it.
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    Everything fits much better. Some of the gaps are showing up in the same spots as before. I can only attribute this to asymmetry in the bulkheads. Something to remember on the next ship!
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    I took the advice of fellow modelers from the forum and bought the GreMir version of USS Selfridge for the 5”/38 cal guns, the 40mm quads and the 20mm dual mounts. I quickly threw together a little 5” turret to get a better idea of how they will look on the finished ship. Note the ultimate problem solver in the background. :grin:
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  3. Chief400

    Chief400 Member

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    Great Idea! I got the Selfridge as a source of parts too......the single mount is going on my DE and planned on using the duals on a USS West Virgina....someday, I might even build the Selfridge herself as a Pearl Survivor......Money well spent! Thanks to the guys at Gremir!
  4. Clashster

    Clashster Member

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    Very nice! Since I have been eyeing many things on Digital Navy for years, I look forward to seeing this build! (not to mention the GreMir models I have on the ol' HD!)
  5. jasco

    jasco Member

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    Before I actually was able to open the model files from GreMir I was getting a little annoyed with all of the passwords and encryption keys, etc. Once I finally got the pertinent e-mails out of the way I was stunned by the kit. The model is not only quite detailed, but GreMir gives us the option to print out at any scale you want I had a process envisioned for getting the needed parts for my Pa. by scanning and scaling and measuring, but all that was needed was to tell the GreMir software what scale you want and it does all of the work for you. :-D If only all models were this easy to scale.
  6. eibwarrior

    eibwarrior Member

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    Great work on the hull plating. For a newbie model maker like myself, I've gathered a bunch of good tips from your build Jasco.

    My next hull should look much better thanks to your efforts here. :-D
  7. alames

    alames New Member

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    I read your post that you had trouble with the two sides of your ship being different. While I applaud your effort, you might want to be aware of real differences in real ships that do show up that way. I've spent 3 years doing R&D at a real shipyard, and I observed a 6 inch difference between left and right sides on a destroyer. The difference was due to the fact that one side of the ship was always in the sun, while the other side was in the shade during construction. When launched, the ship had a distinct tendancy to veer to one side, and required rudder trim to correct. Your correction to the model is correct, as at this scale the error would be miniscule, but it's fun to note that your problem really does occur in the real thing.
  8. jasco

    jasco Member

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    Let's see...6 inches at 1/250th scale is ... .024inches! As long as I have a finite tolerance to work to :grin: It is interesting to note asymmetry on the real thing. I would have never guessed!

    As an update, I haven't worked on the old girl much this week due to Boy Scout camping trips etc. What I have done is to begin fitting the forecastle deck to the framework so hull plating may continue. I saw on the drawing in Stllwell's book on battleships that the steel plates that protect the deck from the anchor chains have a different configuration than either the AZ or the original PA had coming out of the yard. I think it was changed during the refit after Pearl Harbor. I read the ship was down to 2 anchors after the refit and it looks like they changed the configuration of these plates at the same time. I'm having a hard time coming up with definitive photographic proof. All the photos I've found on the net are from the wrong vantage point, or are too far away. I've found some that the 2 chains are clearly visible but it's impossible to see those darned protective plates. So, I’m just taking a stab at it.

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    Just now as I post the picture, it looks like I got the configuration of the starboard pad wrong. Back to the cutting boartd!:cry:

    I’m also trying to find drawings of the superstructure. I know there are some plans out there somewhere, and I’d love to know where I can get a copy. Also if someone could tell me where the chains go after they go around the winch, I’d really appreciate it. I told you I had a poorly thought out strategy! Failing obtaining drawings, I'll just have to go by what the pictures show..Definitely a much larger modelling challenge!
  9. jasco

    jasco Member

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    Here I made the chain pads the correct shape according to the drawing I have
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    This project has turned into a “two steps forward, one step back” affair. I inlaid all of the triple thick chipboard between the bulkheads at deck level to keep the deck flat once I installed it and instead, the inlay combined with my poor choice of glue has made the deck warp into a lumpy mess!
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    I think it was the way I glued the deck down. I slathered Titebond glue all over the sub-deck and laminated the final deck layer on. The cardboard soaked up the water from the glue, swelled, and the glue dried, permanently locking the deck into something that looks like an Olympic Giant Slolam.:cry: I never use water based glue for laminating, preferring instead 3M Spray 77, but I wasn’t in a position to spray glue around. I am at the point now where I am tempted to chuck the whole mess in the ultimate problem solver and just watch TV. I guess I’ll cut out the warped areas and try to put down a flatter deck. I needed extra thickness for the deck anyway since I originally laminated the framework too thick. This isn't going to be the masterpiece I was hoping for, but mavbe the next one will be!:roll:
  10. Jim Krauzlis

    Jim Krauzlis Active Member

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    Don't give up; you'll work it out somehow....

    I often use a glue stick for laminating parts, although probably not over such a wide area as you did here with the deck, but pretty close. I usually put the newly laminated part under the cutting mat on the work table until it cures very well, usually overnight, otherwise it does tend to warp as it dries, which is very annoying. If you put some protective sheet, like wax paper, between the printed top of the laminated part and the cutting mat, and add some weight to keep the mat pressed down, it usually comes out fairly well. Otherwise, using 3M sprayed glue is the best way to go to avoid the warping from water-based adhesives over such a large area. Even when using the spray, I would try and let it cure under a weighted flat surface just to be safe.

    Keep at it, Mate, it's going to work out fine!

    Cheers!
    Jim
  11. Gregory Shoda

    Gregory Shoda Member

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    warped deck

    I sympathize with your frustration & feel your pain. Just hate it when I spend a lot of time on something and unexpectedly something goes wrong. Fortunately, it is cardboard and you can (if the will is still there) reprint the deck and do it again.

    I once completed a built a ship only to find that I had the hause pipes pattern reversed.

    Good luck. Keep at it! With paper you can always repair your mistakes, however painful. The main thing is perseverence in modeling.
  12. jasco

    jasco Member

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    No photos this time, just an update. It took a week of pondering, but I've decided to forge ahead and try to fix the damage. There is too much work in the hull so far to scrap it and start over. I'm going to try something tonight and should have some pix tomorrow if it works.:twisted:
  13. Jim Krauzlis

    Jim Krauzlis Active Member

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    Good for you!! This is an excellent build and I know I'm only one of many who are happy you have decided to continue in this project.

    And good for us, who have been enjoying this build thread very much.:grin:

    Hope to see some updates when you get a chance.

    Cheers!
    Jim
  14. Gil

    Gil Active Member

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    Yikes! Giant Olympic Slalom Course! Good terminology for the disaster. This is painful but I think it's recoverable. Bonding large areas like this is an ever present problem for cardmodelers in general. One point to note is that sealing both surfaces with several coats of clear Krylon spray before applying glue will keep the warps down to little or none. I've experimented with Aleene's Tack It Over-And-Over thinned with a little water as a contact cement. I use a miniature roller to spread a very thin coat over both surfaces and allow them to dry. The pieces are carefully aligned and then pressed together. The bond is permanent and irreversible. The combination of surface sealing and the very thin coat minimizes the amount of warping due to moisture to an undetectable level. The use of the miniature roller and a water based glue preclude overspray and the attendant solvent fumes in the 3M 77 spray.

    -Gil
  15. jasco

    jasco Member

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    Thanks for all of the words of encouragement. I have been a modeler since boyhood, working mainly in wood and metal with the occasional excursion into plastic. Plastic model kits don’t have a satisfying level of fabrication for me, so I never got real involved in them, but I got pretty good at balsa and tissue model airplanes and even the two scratch built wooden boats I’ve done turned out really nice. But Cardstock??? This is driving me insane! Anyway, here is the solution I’ve come up with: Yet more triple-thick chipboard (ta da) to flatten out the warped edge under pressure from my spiffy little clamps.
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    During this phase I am using Titebond aliphatic resin glue. No real need to tell you that, but I like saying "aliphatic resin".
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    Before flattening the subdeck, I ripped off the newly applied finish deck. It now occurs to me that I could have just left the final deck in place, saving myself all kinds of duplicate work!:mad: If making mistakes is the best way to learn, I must be learning a whole lot.:grin:
  16. barry

    barry Active Member

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    so are we learning mate keep at it. It's an interesting build method.
  17. jasco

    jasco Member

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    Yes, it's an interesting "method" all right. Step 1: Forge ahead. Step 2: Screw up. Step 3: Think. Step 4: See step 1. :grin::cry:
  18. Dave Treby

    Dave Treby Member

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    It's also often true that mistakes that are blindingly obvious to you are not noticed by others, and, sometimes when you look a year later you can't remember what the problem was. Well done you for sorting the deck though.
  19. Jim Krauzlis

    Jim Krauzlis Active Member

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    Love your "method"; I think we all use it, actually...I know I have on many an occassion!:grin:

    Keep at it, mate! As Dave said, this will all be forgotten in the end when your beauty sits there completed and resplendent in all her glory....that is probably the first time I ever used that word.

    Cheers!
    Jim
  20. jasco

    jasco Member

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    I figured out the real reason that my deck warped and it had nothing to do with glue or water. I had displeased the Overlords of Modeldom! The first time I glued the deck down I had foolishly used Chapelle's Search for Speed Under Sail,History of the American Sailing Navy, and American Small Sailing Craft as weights. I don't know what came over me! This time I maintained the delicate balance of the universe by weighing the deck down with copies of Iowa Class Battleships,U.S. Battleships, an Illustrated Design History, and Dreadnought.
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    As you can see, this tactic has appeased the Majestic Ones and I have been rewarded with a deck that is gloriously flat!
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    On with the hull plating!