'Using Rhinoceros' Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Software' started by wunwinglow, Jun 20, 2004.

  1. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,093
    Likes Received:
    1
    This thread is the place to discuss the on-going Rhinoceros tutorial series in the 'Articles' section of this website. I will be adding to the Article as often as I can, but this is the place where you can make comments, ask questions, give suggestions regarding anything that arrises from that tutorial series. You can also p/m me (private message, just click on the button at the bottom of this entry) and I will do my best to answer your questions, or at least point you in the right direct to find an answer.

    I would point out that the methods used through this article are just my way of doing things; not THE way! I am sure you will have alternative methods so please chip in so we can all learn from this.

    So, I hope this works; check back soon to see what has been added, and how the discussion is developing!

    Tim P
  2. Gil

    Gil Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,981
    Likes Received:
    0
    Background Paste

    Tim,

    Thanks for all the effort and work that you've put into the Rhino tutorial.

    I followed the tutorial so far and was attempting to paste a rather large Su-7 file into the background. The result was a picture with random horizontal lines at the bottom of the picture box. This is Rhino's clear message system for communicating its inability to post a large picture file. Crunched the same TIF file in Photoshop and limted the horizontal pixel count to around 1024 and transformed it into a JPG file which worked with out a hitch. I'm not sure where this information is contained in Rhino's help but it appears that it has something to do with system memory and display coordinate space. TurboCAD loads just about anyting you tell it to so in this account TC has it over Rhino. You might want to allude to this in the prepraration process using the paint package.

    Again let me express my appreciation for your contribution.

    Best regards, Gil
  3. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,093
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hi Gil,

    how big was the tiff you tried to load? It wasn't the whole set of plans image, was it? Also, how much RAM have you got, and did you have any other programs running at the same time? If you can replicate the problem then cut an paste the error report in th command line, that would help too. I have to say I have never had this problem so I haven't found an upper limit to the pic size. I just tried it with some 3mb picture files from our digital camera and they worked fine; a different one ine each view.

    Glad you like the tutorial so far; snaps next, then some curves and surfaces....

    Tim P
  4. Gil

    Gil Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,981
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tim,

    I was running it on a notebook with 128 MB and did shut down all other programs to allow maximum memory space. The file was from site you recommended which, by the way, doesn't match that shown on your tutorial screen. The mesage here is that Rhino has some sensittivities to memory size vs. picture size but reducing the size of the background picture will generally solve this problem.

    Best regards, Gil
  5. Gil

    Gil Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,981
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tim,

    Began the detail trace work in Rhino but got frustrated and returned to TurboCAD for all the comforts of a 2D drafting package. In all honesty it is much easier to perform scaling and positioning of the drawings in TC than in Rhino. I also have found that the drawing primitive set is much richer as regards the types of objects that need to be represented. I think at this stage that a good 2D drafting package is more productive. I also understand that this may not be the case as the model is further developed but for the while will stick with TC and keep my fingers crossed that the files can be transferred to Rhino when the time comes for it.

    Below is a screen shot of progress so far. Instead of using a background grid I resort to creating a "construction line" grid which is in a layer by itself in TC. Snap grid is set at 0.5 mm for random snaps. I've found that after doing this you begin to see where the formers are placed on the real aircraft amongst other things. This becomes the "construction grid" and greatly accelerates tracing out the entire structure. The major outline of the fuselage, wherein conic sections are planned for the model, are reserved to one layer while detail is placed on a separate layer. Same with tail and cockpit traces.

    This is just another way to achieve the same goal..., be interesting to see if we could exchange files to ease the burden.....,

    One other item for TC Users..., if you are using Version 10 make sure to download and install the 10.1 upgrade. TC 10 is useless without this update.

    Best regards, Gil
  6. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,093
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hi Gil,


    Hmmm. Frustrated with Rhino?? No Pain, No Gain!

    Seriously, if you are happier using a different program, use it!! I had TC a long time ago and it was a great 2D tool, so updated it must be even better....

    Rhino has a fully configurable grid tool, where the grid pitch (spacing) can be set, two line styles applied to the visual grid, and of course you can move the construction plane, on which the grid in each view sits, to any orientation if you need to build accurately off-plane. I too use construction lines on a seperate layer, but keep them to a minimum; they just clutter the workspace otherwise. You can group them and hide them, or turn off their layer, when not needed.

    I prefer to get all the major structural stuff done first, in 3D, and checked out with a test assembly, before I get stuck into all the panel lines and dive brakes. They will be the last things I sort out. It is a royal pain in the end to discover some basic geometry is fouled up, just when you have finished installing a GPS display in the cockpit....

    I am just finishing the next section which covers snaps and constraints in Rhino before doing a bit of structure. I'd wager that at least some of your frustration comes from the snap functions! When you get to know them they make working accurately very easy, and reduce the number of glitches when unrolling to almost zero.

    Back to taking those screen shots!

    Speak soon,

    Tim P
  7. Gil

    Gil Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,981
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tim,

    I'm completing all the detail for the view so it's done. It is contained on a separate layer so as not to clutter the underlying structure. Snaps are key to any drawing package, especially when it comes to 3D manipulation which is now included in TC (biggest change contained in release 10). Another disadvantage is that I'm used to very precise drawings and have to remember that the drawings that are being used are most probably somewhat suspect in accuracy themselves. That's what versions are for (read corrections). The big picture is to get it looking about right and tune the "look" once the whole thing begins to hang together in the proto build phase.

    Back to finsihing up the side view. Front sectionals should be complete in the next several days followed by first loft tests.

    One question; are you going to detail the cockpit? If so are you going to vf the canopy? Landing gear well detail? ....,

    Best regards, Gil
  8. 57townsman

    57townsman Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2004
    Messages:
    404
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi Tim,
    Great tutorial so far! Thanks a bunch, I will be following it closely :wink:

    Is there a reason you use the rear view as opposed to the front view when importing your drawings? Is this because of the side view you chose? In other words, if the plane's nose were to the left, would the front view replace the rear view?

    Thanks in advance,
    Steve
  9. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,093
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hi Steve,
    yes, the titles are a little ambiguous, so I just watch where the cursor is in each view as I move it about. If you prefer to have other views, so left, front (rear!) and plan with the nose pointing down, fine. In Rhino, you can have as many or as few views as you want, each is treated as a seperate window and can be resized to suit. If you were working on a ship for example, both plan and side elevations could run the whole width of your workspace, with other views below. Or if you have a multiple screen set-up ( I wish!) you can move all the toolbars onto the second screen.

    If you look at the Viewport properties, bottom of the View menu, you can change the title to whatever suits, as well as the projection type, camera view angle, wallpaper and grid on or off. Only the selected view will be altered, so you can have different settings in each view. Like I said, very flexible. I have found that usually with Rhino, if something niggles you , you can do something about it! And we haven't looked at scripting yet, either!

    Tim P
  10. jrts

    jrts Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2004
    Messages:
    1,163
    Likes Received:
    0
    :D

    Hi Tim

    Great tutorial and I'am learning a lot.

    I have printed the lot of to read off line, I'am a bit slow on the up take with these things.

    Not long started and find the way you do it great. (up to backgrounds!!)

    Still going with Wings and will have something to show soon.

    Keep up the good work, and thanks

    Regards

    Rob
  11. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,093
    Likes Received:
    1
    Thanks guys, glad it is interesting! The next few paragraphs have been added, concentrating on snaps and constraints. Any comments or questions, fire away!

    Tim P
  12. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,093
    Likes Received:
    1
    ...and another update posted this afternoon. There is a little edit regarding the co-ordinate read out on the bottom of the workspace, further up the article, don't miss it! Flagged with Edit

    Tim P
  13. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,093
    Likes Received:
    1
    ... AND ANOTHER!! Using the Unroll Surface command in some detail.

    I gotta go to bed now. Yawn.......

    Tim P
  14. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Messages:
    398
    Likes Received:
    1
    Well, I know I asked for it, but IT'S NOT FAIR! That looks so much easier than what I've been doing in TurboCad V. 7. Oh well, I guess I'll need to save up so I can buy Rhino someday. Maybe I'll learn TurboCad well enough to mimick some of that eventually.

    Great tutorial Tim!

    Ryan
  15. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,093
    Likes Received:
    1
    Sorry, Ryan! Gil is a whizz with TurboCAD, you two should compare notes! A lot of the concepts are common to different CAD packages, or there are different routes to the same end.

    But Rhino is cool, isn't it!!

    Tim P
  16. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Messages:
    398
    Likes Received:
    1
    Waaay cool.

    Ryan
  17. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,093
    Likes Received:
    1
    Next update added, going into making and trimming the fuselage skins in more detail. Pay attention, there will be questions at the end of this course.....

    Tim P
  18. Gil

    Gil Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,981
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tim,

    Great job! TurboCAD hasn't the facilities of Rhino. It's OK for drafting accurate trace maps but for 3D surface registration of panel lines and the sort you need to switch to Rhino or TrueSpace. Tried drawing with 3D polyline and decided this was another dead end delirium. One thing can be said, I now know a lot more about TurboCAD, Rhino and TrueSpace than before. Next; UV maps, bump mapping, texture maps, mesh maps...,

    Best regards, Gil
  19. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,093
    Likes Received:
    1
    Heads up! Next few paragraphs and pics added tonight. Is anyone having download delay trouble now the document is getting a bit longer? If so let me know, I'll start another, seperate, chapter.

    Tim P
  20. 57townsman

    57townsman Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2004
    Messages:
    404
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi Tim,

    Great tutorial, thanks a million!! I am reading and rereading trying to get a good feeling before I try it out. One question though, I know you are starting simple with a circular form fuselage, but I have to ask :wink: How does one form a non circular fuselage? Will you be covering this in future installments?

    Looking forward to the next exciting chapter...

    Steve