Unknown Tank - ID me?

Discussion in 'General Card Modeling' started by ShaunGamer, Jan 3, 2007.

  1. ShaunGamer

    ShaunGamer Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    0
    I spent a great Christmas with my Father in Far North Australia.
    While touring around, I came across this War Museum that was (unfortunately) closed for the Holidays. I managed to take some photos of the Tank that was parked out the front.

    What is really getting to me is I have been unable to identify it.

    It looks like a Matilda II chassis, but the turret doesn't match.

    Anyone with any ideas?

    Attached Files:

  2. ShaunGamer

    ShaunGamer Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    0
    Another picture - from the side.

    Attached Files:

  3. cjwalas

    cjwalas Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    0
    Interesting. It looks like a British Matilda II chassis with possibly an Australian Sentinel turret?
    Chris
  4. pbhawkin

    pbhawkin Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2005
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    0
    could be Sentinel turret (they had 17pounder or dual 17 pounders) and barrel looks to be very thin. Looks a little like a Grant turret as well but gun far too big.
  5. cjwalas

    cjwalas Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hmmm, on second thought, I don't think it is a Sentinel turret. But it definitely is a Matilda II chassis and body. Curious; a real mystery! I wonder if this is a postwar refitting on the turret?
    Chris
  6. charliec

    charliec Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    Messages:
    887
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's not a Sentinel turret - that turret was quite shallow (see my icon).

    In the 17lb gun version (only one built) the gun overhung the hull by at least a meter or more. The 17lb gun had a muzzle brake in the Sentinel probably to reduce the recoil length - the turret was quite small.

    It certainly is a Matilda hull - which makes sense because the Matilda's were used by the Australian army until the end of WW2 - they were a perfect vehicle for fire support/assault in jungle warfare.

    The turret looks as though it has lost the original mantlet and this has been replaced by a flat sheet. The "gun" is probably a mockup - looks like a piece of water pipe to me.

    Regards,

    Charlie
  7. Nalla

    Nalla New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2006
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    The turret looks a lot like it belongs to a Staghound armoured car, though the main gun is way too big, if its real.:)
  8. David H

    David H Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2005
    Messages:
    523
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would agree with Nalla, that's a Staghound turret with dummy gun.

    A 17pdr Matilda would have made rather a difference to the early years of the 2nd World War! Thinks... colums of smoking panzer2s and 3s in Belgum...

    D
  9. Grizz

    Grizz Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2005
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
  10. charliec

    charliec Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    Messages:
    887
    Likes Received:
    0
    It could also be a turret from an M3A4/5 Grant tank. Both the Grant and Staghound were supplied to Australia during WW2. I'd incline towards a Grant turret since the 280 or so Staghounds were supplied late in the war and seem to have been based mostly in Victoria.

    The "gun" certainly is a mock up. The turret (whether Staghound or Grant) was armed with a 37mm gun. I'd guess the turret was simply dropped into the turret ring of the Matilda.

    I guess the simplest solution is to ask the museum - I've found an e-mail address and will query them. The museum is in Mareeba about 45 km west of Cairns in North Queensland.

    Nice idea but the Matilda turret was too small to be upgunned - the Russians tried to fit the Matilda with their 76mm F-34 gun (a lot smaller than a 17 pounder) to give the Matilda HE capability for infantry support but couldn't fit that gun into the Matilda turret. The Russians got about 1000 Matildas in 1941-42 but didn't like them much.

    Regards,

    Charlie
  11. Jim Nunn

    Jim Nunn Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2004
    Messages:
    379
    Likes Received:
    1
    My first thought was that it is a Matilda Frog or a Murray however the photos I have are of a Frog and the turret is not the same. I don’t have any photos of a Murray.

    Jim Nunn
  12. ShaunGamer

    ShaunGamer Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well I think you guys have nutted it out!
    The Staghound turret looks like the best match and I can confirm that the gun barrel is just water pipe. (guess I should have mentioned that earlier)
    Thanks for all your help.

    With the number of sheds and hangers at this place, I can see I will be visiting again (when I'm up that way!)