The Whiskey River Railway

Discussion in 'HO Scale Model Trains' started by gbwdude, Sep 1, 2010.

  1. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

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    Breaking new ground

    Hi Tyler,

    I think you are breaking new ground with resin casting. Unless Bill has done it I don't think there is anyone that I know in our geographical area that has done resin casting.

    It should be an interesting undertaking you are doing.

    Look forward to your further elucidation on this interesting topic.

    Doc Tom
  2. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    castings

    I have made castings in plaster and epoxy ( I guess that is resin. I have one of those test kits for resin casting from Hobby Lobby, but haven't opened it to study. Making 2 sided molds is what I want to learn, as so far I have only made open face molds, the most complicated was my Iron Furnace mold.


    I scratchbuilt four wooden tweetsee hoppers in HON3, and cut enough wood to make another four. I was thinking of taking the sub assemblies for one of those. and making molds so I could mass produce hopper cars like the ones the tweetsee ( Eastern Tenessee & Western North Carolina) used to haul coal and iron ore. That project got back burnered when I figured out how easy it was to convert Tichy train group's beautiful little wood sided ore car kits to hon3.



    I have lots of experience with open face molds (one sided. I have made them out of liquid latex. I need to experiment with RTV.

    the casting is considerable work, and is best used when you want to make lots of copies.

    there is also the possibility of using parts scrounged from other locomotives, I think I have a boiler and cab off a dead locomotive from the club that I was studying the possibility of resurrecting, but it's drive train was so weird that the traditional parts couldn't be spliced in. I also have a brass cab off of Sierra # 18 which I replaced with a Kemtron brass wooden cab, to back date years ago.

    Bill Nelson
  3. gbwdude

    gbwdude Member

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    Bill,

    That kit from Hobby Lobby is the same kit that I got, I picked it up when I came home on R&R from Afghanistan and it was on sale. Like I said I'm going to try to copy my desk handles first (as one handle is missing and two are broken) and then I'm going to try the parts I scavenged from the Bowser boiler. I'll keep an update on how it goes. Also if you could post a pic of the boiler on here or shoot it in a email I'd be interested to see if it could be reused to fit onto the 4-6-2's chassis. If not, then I'll either have to scratch one or find a suitable replacement.

    Since the only model I would like to keep as close to the prototype as possible is the 4-6-2 I would like to keep the look of the straight top boiler. Keep in mind I'm not going for dimensions, as the cab looks huge and disproportionate to the rest of the locomotive and was built that way to keep crew comfort to a max. I have only found two models that are similar to the boiler I'd like, and that's the B&O's E27 2-8-0 imported from United and Precision Scale's Northern Pacific 4-6-2 that was released a few years ago. I know the PSC's lokie is major cash to shell out (last one I saw on eBay was going for a little under $2000), leaving that out of the question. So if I could find just a boiler or just a cheap E27 I'd be in business IF I wanted to go that route.

    Back to one of my unanswered questions, could run of the mill clear gloss work for HO scale use or would that be too coarse?

    Tyler

    Attached Files:

  4. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    I have used it some, it varies brand to brand, so get some and test it before using it on something valuable. That is the same approach I use in using spray paint cans to paint brass, which sounds crazy, but I get good results.


    Bill
  5. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

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    Hi Tyler,

    I agree with Bill trying it out on a piece of painted scrap would be the way to go.

    Here is an interesting article on decaling that I refer to in doing up my large scale models. You may find it interesting.

    Doc Tom

    The Art of Applying Decals

    July 22, 2009

    by Joe Czapiga

    Decals The art of applying thin film wet decals to models is one that only gets better with practice. If at first you don’t succeed, try and try again. Patience and persistency will allow you to produce models that look as good, if not better than the models in all your favorite magazines.

    I am sure many people have many different methods of applying decals successfully. The methods I use were mostly developed by trial and error and lots of query at every hobby shop I’ve gone to.

    As for the myth that you won’t be able to produce a great looking model until you have 20 years of experience, forget it. I have always loved trains, but I have only been a modeler for about three years. It has only been about one year since I decided to try custom painting and decaling.

    If you have never tried to apply thin film decals before, your first experience will probably be one of impatience and frustration. These decals are very delicate and can be ruined very easily. For your first project, I recommend practicing with simple decal jobs which do not require strict alignment in order to look good.

    Usually, rolling stock such as box cars (smooth sided), covered hoppers, etc. have pretty simple paint schemes. Many are only one or two colors. Stay away from thin, long, longitudinal lines on the long hood of a locomotive such as the GATX units you see on the St. Lawrence & Atlantic. Even the most experienced modeler can have difficulties with these.

    Applying decals also requires some special tools. What I mean by special tools is you probably have them in your hobby tool box but might not think they would be used to apply decals. Here is a list of tools & supplies I have within arms reach when I apply decals to a model:

    1. A shallow bowl filled about 1/2 way with luke warm water.
    2. Scissors (preferably small to medium size).
    3. Hobby knife.
    4. Two small detailing paint brushes.
    5. Solvaset (decal setting fluid).
    6. Bath tissue or Kleenex (NOT paper towels).
    7. Two No.2 pencils with an eraser.
    8. Cross locking tweezers.
    9. Decals.
    10. Prototype photos (if you have any).

    After you have all these items together you’re ready to apply decals. If by now you don’t have a model to decal, it would probably be a good time to get one. Decals stick the easiest to glossy finishes. They will stick to dull finishes just as well but are much harder to work with on this type of surface. The decals don’t slide into place as easily making it much more critical to place them almost exactly where they need to be with little or no adjustment. Because of this it may be more difficult to remove any air bubbles under the decal. First time decalers should choose something with a glossy finish. Glossy paint or clear gloss coat work equally well.

    The first thing to do is to get all your tools listed above and your model and set them up on a clean flat surface with good lighting. Make sure you have plenty of room to spread out your tools so they can be easily reached if you need them quickly. Make sure you wash your hands thoroughly before you start.

    Next, choose a decal you would like to apply. At this step it is a good idea to know what type of decal you are about to apply. I am familiar of two different types; Type One is printed on a plain old sheet of decal paper, and Type Two has each individual decal printed on decal film which is then applied to the paper backing.

    With Type One you must trim as close as possible to the design of the decal you are going to apply, otherwise the excess may become visible when it dries on the model. Type Two decals can be cut as close or as far away from the design as you like. Whichever type you have, cut the selected decal from the sheet and place it on the model where you would like it to be. Lining things up and visualizing what you want to do before you put the decal in the water is very important. Once you put the decal in the water, things can get difficult.

    Third, you will want to wet the area where the decal will sit with some of the warm water. Use your paintbrush for this. Wetting this area will help reduce air bubbles under the decal and help you maneuver the decal into place. When you become more experienced at applying decals, you may use the Solvaset to wet the area instead of water. There is an advantage and a disadvantage to using Solvaset instead of water.

    Using water allows you unlimited time in adjusting and lining up your decal where you would like it, but does not eliminate air bubbles under the decal (it only helps to minimize). Using Solvaset eliminates air bubbles almost entirely, BUT, and I stress BUT, you only have about 20 seconds (maximum) before the Solvaset softens the decal making it almost impossible to maneuver.

    Now you may take your decal and place it in the water. I usually hold the decal with cross-locking tweezers as I place it in the water. Sometimes it is difficult to retrieve a decal, especially if it is small, from the bowl of water if you just toss it in. After about 15-30 seconds you should be able to move the decal around on the paper backing. If not put it back in the water for about 10 seconds more.

    Once you can move it, place the decal and paper backing (do not remove the decal from the backing yet) on your index finger. Remove the cross-lock tweezers, slide the decal just a tiny bit to the opposite side of the hand your tweezers are in, and re-apply the tweezers to the backing paper ONLY. Now you have the backing paper and a decal which is free to slide in any direction you would like.

    Position the model so you can place the edge of the decal on the model. Then hold that edge to the model with your paintbrush and slide the decal paper backing away. Try to keep the decal as close to the model as possible while pulling the backing paper.

    Once you have removed the backing paper, use your paintbrush to position the decal. Pushing on the edges of the decal is most effective. You may also use the eraser of a No.2 Pencil to move the decal around. Remember, if you used Solvaset instead of water to wet your surface, you must work fast.

    Position the decal where you would like it to be. Try to push out any air bubbles under the decal by rolling the bristles of the paintbrush to the outer edge of the decal. After all of the air bubbles have been removed, very gently brush on Solvaset sparingly while not moving the position of the decal. Be sure to cover the whole decal especially around the edges. The Solvaset usually works its way under the decal pretty good.

    At this point you should put the model down and let this decal dry. If you are confident enough you may apply more decals, but remember the decal you just applied is very fragile. If you touch it before it dries you will probably ruin it.

    Sometimes the Solvaset makes the decal appear as if it is wrinkling up. This is normal. The decal will set flat on the model when it dries. When the decal does wrinkle, keep an eye on it. If it appears the wrinkle is not coming out on its own you may have to get those wrinkles out. Before you attempt to move the decal, carefully brush on some warm water (no more than a 1/2 drop or so).Carefully use your paint brush to drag the decal from the outer edges away from the center of the wrinkled area. The decal’s position on the model should not be compromised by this. You should only have to move part of the decal a distance equal to the thickness of the wrinkle.

    After the decal dries, inspect it for air bubbles that you missed the first time. If there are any, make a tiny hole in the decal with a pin and brush on some Solvaset making sure it gets in the hole and under the decal. The Solvaset will soften the decal again and make it set to the surface of the model. Since the decal is soft and wet again you should allow it to dry. Drying times may vary. I recommend at least an hour or so. Usually I will let them dry about an hour before I apply another decal unless I know I can do it without disturbing the one I just applied.

    Finally, I recommend a gloss or dull coat be applied by air brush or spray can to the model after all the decals have been applied and have dried. This will help “hide” the decal edges and make your model look realistic. After you have practiced these methods a few times and develop some of your own, you will be able to produce models of superior quality.

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  6. gbwdude

    gbwdude Member

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    Well gents, I made it up to 'sconsin alright. I took a look through my stored goods and found my airbrush and the rest of my rr stuff. Good thing i'll be bringing my truck back!

    If the snow sticks around, I'll snap some pics of rr stuff.

    Tyler
  7. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

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    Hi Tyler,

    I am glad you found the airbrush..........now you can get real creative.

    I know your family is ecstatic to have you back in the good ole USA.

    Are you thinking about pictures of trains in the snow??? They can be pretty impressive.

    Enjoy the holidays and have safe travels back to Tennessee.

    Doc Tom
  8. gbwdude

    gbwdude Member

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    Dr Tom,

    Up here by my in laws there's a lot more snow than down by my parents. I'm hoping a snowplow extra runs through town, but if not I'll be content with the traffic the paper mill generates here.

    Merry Christmas to all!

    Tyler
  9. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

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    HiTyler,

    Looking forward to some pics of trains in snow if possible.

    Doc Tom
  10. gbwdude

    gbwdude Member

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    Hello all,

    Well I made it back from Wisconsin without any issues thankfully. I brought back two 30 gallon totes full of train stuff and my 1955 Hiawatha set. Like earlier I mentioned I brought back my airbrush and oodles of paint I forgot I had, including paint from when I was in Boy Scouts to build my pinewood derby cars. I had to unpack and pack up pretty much everything I had up north since it was all in cardboard boxes and humidity from the spring and summer ruins lots of stuff. Not only did I pack in totes the previously mentioned train stuff, but my whole Lego collection and my old rc car collection. I didn't even get a chance to touch my farm toys, but then again I tried my best to enjoy myself back home instead of being a slave to my mom's OCD.

    Unfortuneatly I didn't see any 1:1 scale operations on my adventure in the north. It was very strange that I didn't see anything happening up by my in-laws either since that's where the paper mill is, then again perhaps I was around at the wrong time of the month. Where my parents stay at is pretty far away from tracks and only a half hour drive away from Fond du Lac which is home to a huge shop and at one time the yard was home to two roundhouses and a huge machine shop complex when Soo Line had it. At one time they even built their own boxcar fleet there.

    Just because I worked most of the time on vacation doesn't mean I didn't snap some interesting pics. Some construction company had a nice old 65hp Case steam tractor sitting in their front yard in Stockbridge. That thing had been sitting there for some time and I hope they get around to restoring it to run again. Also at the Paper Valley MRR Club they added a whole new level inside their Green Bay room and partly into the Milwaukee room to add two new cities and a whole bunch of new industries. For nostalgia's sake they let me switch cars around on the new level and test out the new trackage. Let me tell you, the doodlebug I was assigned to was a hoss, I could pull a four car train without a issue!

    Plans for the new year on the WRRy includes painting most of the fleet, giving my hand at casting parts and working on steam projects. In addition to trying to get the Super American and my 4-6-2 operating I have my British-made 2-6-0 Green Bay and Western kit I started. I paused on that one since it came with an open frame motor and I wanted DCC with sound in it, and now I have a motor that should fit it and funding for the decoder.

    Tyler

    Attached Files:

  11. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

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    Hi Tyler,

    Sounds like you got quite a haul of modeling goodies on your recent visit to home.
    The pictures of the steam tractor and the club layout are very nice.

    Doc Tom
  12. gbwdude

    gbwdude Member

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    Dr Tom,

    The club layout looks nice since last time I was there, and the new level looks and operates really nice. Maybe if we take that road trip we'll have to stop.

    I took pics of that steam tractor for two reasons: one was it's a Case tractor (made in Wisconsin) and two I have a leftover boiler shell from my Super American project. I'd just have to do some minor mods to the boiler and find some old wheels for it and it can go to work on a farm or be a flatcar load.

    Tyler
  13. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

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    Now I know where CASE tractors are made. There must be some good steel works in Wisc..

    Looking forward to seeing what you make with the boiler shell.

    Doc Tom
  14. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

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    Tyler's neat trains on the club layout

    Tyler ran a beautiful 1955 Hiawatha passenger consist on the Clarksville Tennessee model RR club layout tonight.

    Here are some pictures from the trusty i Phone. Tyler should be along here soon to add commentary to this beautiful train.

    Doc Tom

    Attached Files:

  15. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    big train.

    It was good to see the big train on the club layout. our work cleaning the track has paid big dividends, and constant work on the mainline let that big long passenger train operate without problems.


    as we clean up the helix and the lower staging , we will get the racetrack fully functional, and be able to run that train in the loop


    I am getting close to getting the upper deck on the far wall operable, as soon as the lower return loop is established, I'll be able to get the return loop on the mountain branch in and we will have more operational capability. I want to fo a major rebuild on the mountain branch, but will abstain until the valley branch is operational
  16. gbwdude

    gbwdude Member

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    Gents,

    I love the pics Dr. Tom, it looks good coming from your phone and hopefully next time you'll have your big camera to take more awesome pics. As much as I love moving freight on a model railroad I do have a soft spot for a big streamliner roaring down the tracks. Also after further investigation both of the FA1's I brought with didn't have sound so my hunch was right. I painted the whitewalls on the Green Bay and Western FA1's per prototype and the Soo didn't practice whitewalls on their diesels so that would have meant that one would have been unbeautified.

    Also if you guys are interested, I have some links to the real deal GBW power I brought in:
    http://www.greenbayroute.com/fatrain.htm
    http://www.greenbayroute.com/1961fa1.htm
    http://www.greenbayroute.com/1958train.htm

    I'm thinking next week of either bringing back the FA's and some more GBW power or if I get around to lettering one of my lokies for WRRy I might bring that in. We'll see and time will tell.

    Tyler
  17. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

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    Nice proto dweezel

    Hi Tyler,

    You got the color scheme and lettering "dead on" on your model. I like the prototype pictures. The third (last) picture is one we could set up at the long main at Spit n Chew. Bill and I should try to remember CAMERAS at the next club meeting.

    I am glad to see trains running on the club layout which is perfect for long consists of logs, coal, freight and paying passengers. Good work!!!

    Doc Tom
  18. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    I got the coal load removed from the tender of the monster. This shows the challenge we have to get the decoder and speaker in the tender. this is not the normal rectangular tender, it has a curved bottom. to correctly model this , the tender is fabricated in one piece, so the traditional down facing speaker on the tender floor would be tricky if not impossible. we will have to cut out the back sloping fave of the coal bunker. the heavy bass speaker enclosure is just slightly too long to fit face up under the coal load.


    In order to do this thing, brass shavings are in the future! I have chopped up a lot of brass in the past, but it has all been mine, so I have some nervousness here, but this is a very cool project, this thing is a monster, very heavy , the motor and mechanism is very smooth, so once we get this decoder and speaker installed, some electrical pick up improvements, and the valve gear repair made, this should be an impressive locomotive,

    Attached Files:

  19. gbwdude

    gbwdude Member

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    I'm glad you got the coal out and I'm assuming it was only white glued in. If you shoot me a email on Sunday to remind me I can bring the plugs for the tender-locomotive connections. The only issue with that is they're still connected to the board and I don't have either a solder sucker upper thing or a desoldering wick. IF I get a chance I might run to Radio Shack and pick one up. There are other toys I wanted to grab I wanted to grab off the boards anyways so it is only a matter of time to pick one up.

    I am hoping you did keep the coal for reinstallation. If not it's not a big deal, I just liked how it looked. :)

    Thanks again for putting this steamer back in service for me.

    Tyler
  20. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    The coal did look really good. Note the use of the past tense. the cavity was willed up with Styrofoam, the smooth pile shape was made up of toilet paper soaked in white glue. amd the coal was glued in a thin layer on top, and soaked in white glue till it was rock hard/ I had to drill into it, and then break it out bit by bit with a pair of pliers. what came out looks more lite styrofoam and toilet paper than coal, and we will have to hunt for some good coal.


    Bill