The future MV&P- Needs some help!

Discussion in 'Track Planning' started by MilesWestern, Oct 8, 2006.

  1. Russ Bellinis

    Russ Bellinis Active Member

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    You don't mention how high the layout is. You could do a huge staging yard directly under the existing layout using three sides of the same footprint as the main layout. I would make the staging yard a big letter "J" with the long end of the J under the long side ending where you have "city" marked on your drawing. Then the "J:" continues along the bottom side in the drawing and up to end the short side under "industry." That leaves the diagonal side marked "ATSF" with the passing siding for your duck under. If I'm figuring correctly from the measurements you gave, the distance from the bottom left corner at the end of the Industry bench around the corner up to the city is 9 feet by 11 feet or 240 inches. A six inch rise over that distance would be a 2.5% grade. I think that would allow the staging yard to be placed 6 inches below the main layout height. If you want to put more separation between the levels and still keep a duckunder but not have too extreme a grade to climb, you could use two switch backs with say a 6 foot tail track on each end. The train length would be limited to 6 feet, but I don't think you would want to have a train much longer than that on the mainline since it would get too close to chasing it's tail if it was much longer than 6 feet. With some automatic reversing switches and automatic turnout controls, you could start a train up the switch back and then let the switch back tracks work the train up automatically. It should join the mainline somewhere in the "city" allowing the area under "ATSF" for a duck under. Make your staging tracks far enough apart that you will have plenty of finger room to rerail trains.
  2. MilesWestern

    MilesWestern Active Member

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    The Layout would be rough;y 4 feet off the ground. That would be doable, but what's all this about an auto reverser?? :confused:
  3. Russ Bellinis

    Russ Bellinis Active Member

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    Have you ever seen electric trolly models on a straight section of track that come to a spot near the end of the track, stop, and then go the other way? It is done by an auto reversing circuit that is sold by Circutron I think. The idea is that if you decide to use two switch backs to allow more vertical separation between the staging yard, you could set it up with some automatic controls that would allow the train to go through the switch backs automatically without having to watch those switch backs all the way up.
  4. kitsune

    kitsune Member

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  5. gottaBreal

    gottaBreal Member

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    Very nice work dude. however I think what boss wants is a LOOP so he can sit back and watch trains run. This is a nice layout IMO
  6. MilesWestern

    MilesWestern Active Member

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    Hey there kitsune! I like the idea, but it has two major flaws. The side with Perris is 12 feet, when along that wall I only have 9 feet. The switching branch at Hemet is 7 feet longg when I only have four feet there, and the Looooong wall at Empanada Canyon is only 14 feet (16 w/o any room) I luike the direction it;s going, I already itemized the lumber, but I can change if need be.

    Why not tighten it up a bit, it may work, and keep in mind that San jacinto is 9X12 feet in it's original state.
  7. gottaBreal

    gottaBreal Member

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    It was a point to point layout tho I dont think that plan had the loop de loop style which you seem to like.
  8. MilesWestern

    MilesWestern Active Member

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  9. gottaBreal

    gottaBreal Member

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    looks Good however those 3 tracks are HUGE and yet the yard tracks near the round house are tiny. Dont forget that staging tracks need to only be as long as your sidings.
  10. MilesWestern

    MilesWestern Active Member

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    ok, I was just doing that for issues with car storage. I own 62 cars, and plan to keep at least 1/2 on the layout in sidings as well as in the staging yard, but you do have a point.
  11. ocalicreek

    ocalicreek Member

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    There's something utilitarian and appealing about that SJ plan...Andy S. should publish more of his ideas...seems like he had a plan for a layout that grew in stages that was pretty cool too.

    Anyway, I found it! The issue of MR is September 1997. I'm scanning the plan now and will try to get it posted here in a few minutes.

    Galen
  12. MilesWestern

    MilesWestern Active Member

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    I agree ocalicreek! (Galen) I like this plan A LOT. I like it mostly because it reflects my personal vision of how a layout should be.

    IT has breathing space,and isn't a "Spaghetti Bowl" As John Armstrong would call it! It's more realistic because of that, and it has the iundustry that appeals to me the most: orange packing! :) :thumb:
  13. ocalicreek

    ocalicreek Member

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    California Northeastern Railroad

    Here's the plan:

    View attachment 31501

    This is the Sonoma County Model Railroad Society's portable railroad. It's built in 5 sections - four 30"x6' tables with a 12"x6' drop in section for the middle. The red dashed lines on the plan indicate these sections. The maximum grade is 3%, minimum radius 22", and turnouts are #6 minimum (handlaid). In fact, all but three of the turnouts are handlaid, but the article mentions their desire to use prefab on the 'permanent' layout to follow.

    This was also a test-bed for the C/MRI control and signalling system. But I suppose you could power it however you like.

    What made me think about this for you...it's an island with several features you're looking for...a yard for car storage, many places to switch, and if station stops are arranged around the line it has commuter potential. The size seems like it'd fit your space, as it's only 6'x11'. What'dya think?

    Galen

    Attached Files:

  14. ocalicreek

    ocalicreek Member

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    If you go with the SJ plan as you have adapted it, then here's a suggestion for your staging yard. If it's primarily a car storage yard then split it in half and point it both directions. What I mean is, move the yard ladder further to the 'right' on the plan and add a few yard tracks going back the other direction so you double the number of tracks but shorten them all by half. This should allow for your max train length for storage as well as provide some short tracks for making/breaking consists.

    Also, make the continuous run connection a simple drop leaf and add a few staging tracks or an industry spur onto your 4' 'possible extension' section.

    Looks great! As for the CNE...well, I guess it is a bit of a spaghetti bowl, but some creative concealment, perhaps a backdrop down the middle, could give you a bit more scenecerity.

    Galen
  15. MilesWestern

    MilesWestern Active Member

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    Great! Glad you agree that it works, Galen! ;) I was intending to make that section a dropleaf. As for doubling the yard, I'll have to see how many switches I can afford. Flextrack is cheaper than switches, but I suppose the added wood nullifies that. I like the provision for the loop alot myself, and personally wonder if all the major curves can be adapted for 24" radius or greater, because there's nosense in a layout so large with such sharp curves!
  16. ocalicreek

    ocalicreek Member

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    Well...unless you LIKE sharp curves, and/or that's what your prototype did (like an industrial complex or inner city...sprawling are with hairpin turns between and into buildings, etc...)

    Galen
  17. MilesWestern

    MilesWestern Active Member

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    ME+ Sharp Curves+ large 6 axle diesel= frustration
  18. kitsune

    kitsune Member

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    The tradeoff of widening the curves is that you lose length of straight sections, and thus the length of suitable places for standard switches. If you broaden the curves, you may have to "stretch" towns to extend along those curves.

    IMO, having less track overall that runs in peak performance is better than having more track taht doesn't live up to your expectations.

    This goes along with another of my maxims: You can always find a way to complicate the operations on a simple plan, but you can't usually simplify the operations of a complicated plan.

    Less is more.
  19. MilesWestern

    MilesWestern Active Member

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    what do you mean? GO with the 24" raduis and deal with shortened straightaways? Tome that sound like the best solution versus having the worry about minimum radius crap! :)
  20. kitsune

    kitsune Member

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    Yes. I'd go with the wider radius and deal with shortened straightaways over having tight radius with longer straightaways. Plus, wider curves produce easier curve coupling, so if you broadened it to 30" whenever possible, you could probably still switch on those.

    Since you may lose siding capacity, you may want to curve some of those sidings around to make them longer.