The Apollo Historical Series in 1/480th scale released!

Discussion in 'Space & Aeronautics' started by George B, Apr 27, 2008.

  1. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

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    Saturn V Updates?

    Mike and George,

    Any news on the Saturn V models on the horizon?

    In anticipation,
    Bengt :thumb:
  2. WeeVikes

    WeeVikes Member

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    Bengt,

    Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.


    On my end, I've had some computer issues, and my wife had some surgery a little while ago, so my attention has been elsewhere. And, to be honest, George and I pushed really hard to get the designs done, I really needed a bit of a break. Honestly, all of the models are designed, but the hard part (to me, anyway) packaging, documenting, etc, still needs to be done on the as-of-yet to be released models. That was a bit of a hang-up for me. George has been up to his eyeballs in work -- I'm sure you know how that is. We've been talking today for the first time in a while, and we both want to get things up and rolling again. We feel bad about hyping the series, and not getting the rest of the models out.

    I promise, we'll try to get rolling again, and get you the updated S-V's and some of the other fun toys we've come up with.


    Mike
  3. londonbluemisty

    londonbluemisty Wayne P

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    Mike,
    Cheers for the update:thumb::thumb:
    We are all eagerly awaiting the next release:twisted:

    Wayne
  4. George B

    George B Senior Member

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    Hi guys!

    Sorry to have temporarily dropped off the face of the earth. I sure do miss stopping in here all the time.

    A new endeavor (business) has been consuming all my time here lately, but I did want to reiterate what Mike said. We'll try our best to get them out to you guys here soon.

    Thanks for understanding.

    George
  5. londonbluemisty

    londonbluemisty Wayne P

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    Nice to here from you George, :mrgreen:
    That's the trouble with work,it always gets in the way of our hobbies!!wall1wall1

    Wayne
  6. Yeah, you have to get your priorities straight
  7. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

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    Saturn V Updates

    Mike and George,

    You seem to have your priorities in order. Take your time, there´s no rush on the eastern front. I know it will be well worth the wait.

    Thanks for staying in touch, although you are both up to your ears in work. Your combined modeling efforts bears the mark of excellence and success.

    Best,
    Bengt :thumb:
  8. the mole

    the mole Member

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    Any word on this project? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
  9. That was a joke (American humor)
  10. WeeVikes

    WeeVikes Member

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    This will be a long one. I apologize in advance.

    Here's the history of this, in a nutshell. Let me try to 'splain...

    George and I started out with just updating the ML/LUT and the SV, trying to make the original model more accurate, and to build a nice model of 500F (Dyna, you were our inspiration!) . We then decided, while we were at it, to do all the SV missions. So then, we thought, Gee, I wonder if we could do the Milkstool/S-1B? which as you can see, we did. The process of doing this involved trading files back and forth, as you can imagine, so George has had some of them and I've had some of them. For the most part, I built the architectural parts of the models while George did the paint jobs and fixed the stuff I screwed up. I believe George has finished the paint jobs for all the LUTs and all the SV vehicles. One of my jobs was to put together the Cover Sheets which took me a while due to computer issues, but I've completed them. (I think). We really need to come up with some instructions, and given George's work situation (it's intense, but really, really cool), I'll probably go ahead and do that, in order to take some weight off his shoulders. When I do that, and we figure out how to package the models (do we do individual SV's? Do we put them all together in one file? Do we package the SV with the LUT it was launched with? Do we package all the LUTs together? Decisions, decisions, decisions...) we'll be able to release the Saturn V models. So, I need to get moving on instructions, which is the part I hate most, and have been somewhat procrastinating on. Sorry, I'll try to get on it as quickly as I can. I feel like I owe you guys.

    In the meantime, being the carried-away engineer I am, once I saw that George took my rough draft S-1B model I made for the Skylab/Milkstool model and painted the prototype like Apollo 7, I thought, Hmmm, that looks really cool... we need a way to display that. So, I started in on designing LC-34, as you've no doubt seen in the photos. By this point, it became obvious that we were missing some missions -- we'd have Apollo 4 and Apollo 6, and Apollo 7, but we were missing Apollo 5... Ok, that's easy enough to fix -- design a new nosecone, and voila, Apollo 5. Wait, Apollo 5 wasn't launched on LC-34. It was LC-37... Back to the drawing board... 37 was a very tough nut to crack, but in the end I had a reasonable prototype. But wait... That pad was largely used to launch Saturn 1 Block II vehicles... Why not do those, too? Oy, more research, more designing... You get the picture. Now we had models of every launch vehicle and pad that ever launched a spacecraft that plausibly could be identified as an Apollo vehicle. Er, not so fast, my friends... I got to thinking, If we're going to be complete, and model everything with either an Apollo S/C or boilerplate on it, we really need the Little Joe IIs, don't we? Back to designing... Oh, and since I'm designing the pads for all these, I gotta have LJ's pad, don't I? Did that, too... Talk about a tiny launch pad... (Oh, for you completests -- I didn't bother with the LES test vehicles. If you really want them, just build a LJ CM and LES and call it a day... :) )


    After having done all that, George's work situation kicked in and I started having computer issues. About the time my computer situation sorted itself out, I ran across some resources that indicated to me that that I'd botched my LC-34 and LC-37 prototypes. To do it right, I almost had to start from scratch. 37 was always mostly guesswork on my part anyway, so I wasn't too upset to have to re-do that one, since I'd be making it much better as a result. 34 frustrated me because I thought I'd nailed it, but realized I'd really screwed up some things I should have gotten right given info I'd had at the time -- things that were blatantly, obviously wrong... It was clear I had to redesign that one as well, and I managed to clean it up pretty thoroughly, so I'm even happier with it now. However, I just finished prototyping them, so this is fairly recent.

    So, where does all of this leave us? The SV/LUT models files are between me and George. I think once I can put together some instructions and we decide how to package them, we'll be able to forward them to Jon Leslie for distribution. The Little Joe, Saturn 1, LC-34 and LC-37 files reside with me. George has not had a chance to review my updates to 34 and 37 yet -- obviously I'd like for him to do that before we release them, as this is a joint project... That's on me -- I wanted to finish up the prototypes of the revised models and make whatever design tweaks were necessary before I sent them to him. I've just finished that, so I need to let him review the redesigned models ASAP. Once I put together some instructions for all of the models, they should all be ready. So, let me ask you, which ones do you want first? How should we prioritize the remaining workload?

    Also, there's one more model out there that we've been working on with a third party, that kinda accompanies the SV/LUT model. George has been playing with that one -- I'm not sure where it stands, but I think it's close to be being finished. It's really sweet -- I think you'll like it!

    Sorry for the long post, and sorry for the long wait. Hopefully you understand a little better why things have taken a while. It's been longer than we hoped, but in hindsight, had we released things months ago, we'd have released some horribly incorrect, substandard models. I'd have kicked myself for that. I promise you, I'll try to get in gear, and get these things across the finish line.

    Mike
  11. mvink

    mvink Member

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    Hi Mike,

    First off, EXCELLENT JOB on what you have released so far!

    That being said, we understand that both you and George have lives, unlike some of us who just live to model. We appreciate what you two are doing for the historical preservation of the Apollo/Saturn program and while, yes we are "champing at the bit" to get the rest of the series, we are content to wait for it to be done right.

    As for priorities, I personally think that they should be released in order from first to last.

    Mike in California
  12. Mechanic

    Mechanic Member

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    I found this an immensely interesting post; kind of of a "behind the scenes" of what it takes to do a project like this.:thumb:




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  13. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

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    Saturn V Updates

    Me too, Mechanic,

    I felt exactly the same way when I read it - very illuminating and educational. It´s interesting to learn about the background of such a diverse project.

    Hi Mike and George,
    Sometimes you just have to prioritize work, family and what have you and the recreational hobbies will juts have to wait. It is quite understandable.

    My Saturn V and LUT model has collected dust for over a month now but I will soon continue with the assembly when the darkness of the Nordic fall is upon us and I can no longer be out digging in our garden or renovating our old wooden fence.
    This will probably coincide with a Saturn V-Apollo 11 1:480 scale model.

    Best regards and thanks again for all the wonderful models,
    Bengt in Stockholm :wave:
  14. WeeVikes

    WeeVikes Member

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    Thanks, Mike.

    Chronological order may just be the way to go.


    Mike in Ohio ;-)
  15. WeeVikes

    WeeVikes Member

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    I'm glad you found the post enlightning. I find that gratifying!

    Not to toot our own horns or anything, but it's difficult to convey how much effort went into this series in an effort to get them as correct as possible. In order to do the Saturn Vs and the LUTs, that part was actually relatively straightforward. There are many, many sources of dimensions, data, photos, etc, that designing those models was not that bad, and relatively easy to get right. LC 34, 37, and the Little Joe launchers, however were another case entirely. There just aren't many good sources of data readily available for them. It literally took pouring over hundreds of documents, thousands of pages of data and countless photographs to come up with what we did, and at that there was still a fair amount of guesswork, scaling one dimension from another, etc. We had to make some assumptions here and there, and that got me into trouble in my first design iterations of 34 and 37. After the Mk 1 versions were done, I stumbled across a report or something that showed me I got some things wrong, which forced me back to the drawing board. I will say, though, that based on what we were able to find, unless someone can give me actual blueprints on those three launchers, such as those that readily exist for the SV LUT, those models are about as good as I'll be able to get them. (Actually, if anyone has real dimensioned drawings of any of this, I'll GLADLY rework the models. I'm a fanatic about getting things as correct as I can.) In fact, to try to get the base of LC-34 as close as possible to the real thing, I literally got a screen cap from Google Maps of the remnants of the pad, laid my model layout on top of it, and made adjustments based on the photo. It worked like a charm! It made the ground surrounding the pad much more accurate, and it showed me that I was pretty close on the size and layout of the redesign of the pedestal, tower, supporting structures, etc. Also there's always the question of how much detail is appropriate at this scale. Sometimes the minute detail you're working on at 400x magnification just doesn't come across in a 1/480th scale model... :)

    Again, I don't want to come across like I'm bragging over the efforts we made -- I'm absolutely not. I just feel bad that this is taking longer than I think we all hoped, and am offering this as an explaination as to where the time has gone. Hopefully you'll find the results well worth the wait. I've certainly enjoyed the process and I've learned a lot as a result, and to me, that's one of the most important aspects of this, and I hope our little series will educate and inspire others as well.

    Thanks for your patience.


    Mike
  16. smyfe

    smyfe Member

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    Hi Mike, I personally want to thank George and yourself for all the effort that has been and is being put into designing these models for all of our pleasures. There is no need to apologise to anyoneas it is you that are doing us a great service:thumb: One of the main aspects I've found about this hobby is patience and i don't mind how long the wait is, you will get there and we will all be grinning from ear to ear.:mrgreen:
    Thanks guys
    Mick
  17. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

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    Saturn V - Apollo 11

    Hi Mike and George,

    I have continued to assemble the Saturn V LUT now (platform and tower almost finished) and parts of the S-V launcher.
    I was wondering if you have any updated sheets on the Saturn V, with specific Apollo 11 markings, in the making? It would be nice to have the appearance of the launcher as correct as possible. Thanks.

    Best,
    Bengt :thumb:
  18. Mechanic

    Mechanic Member

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    Nice to see you, you haven't been around much lately! How are your builds going?



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  19. WeeVikes

    WeeVikes Member

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    Bengt,

    This sounds terrible, but the Saturn V files currently reside in George's computer, and he's been up to his eyeballs in a new business venture. I'd send them out, but I don't actually have them. I'm sure as things clear up a bit, George will do what he can to make them available.

    I do, however, have most of the rest of the models. I've also been busy with a new job assignment, which as brought me to a stand-still, however, I will try to get my stuff together. I know I keep saying that, and I feel bad about it, but I ask for your patience while our jobs sort themselves out.

    Thanks,


    Mike
  20. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

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    Saturn V - Apollo 11

    Hi Mike,

    Thanks for the update. We are still hoping.

    Do you think it would be possible to release just the sheet/s for the Saturn V, as a first step?

    Thanks,
    Bengt :thumb: