STAR TREK DISCOVERY: BOOOOO!!!!!!!

Discussion in 'Off Topic Lounge' started by zathros, Oct 2, 2017.

  1. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

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    So CBS airs STAR TREK Discovery, than wants you to join their subscription service to delivery the rest? You will have commercials you have to pay for and for more money, no commercials. They promise access to all the crappy shows you never watched before with this package.

    They (CBS)stink, and have killed the franchise. I watched the first Episode. It wasn't bad. I would not pay to watch it though. Paying through advertising is the standard. They violated the trust, and I will not ever watch anything on CBS again. I have deleted the channel from my receiver.

    I can't believe, wait, I can believe, CBS has had a history of turning against it's own, what would stop them from turning against the viewing public? Nothing.
  2. spaceagent-9

    spaceagent-9 Right Hand Man and Confidant Moderator

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    I felt that way ever since they"Ax"d a fan flick. I didn't bother to watch the premier. From what I am hearing , it's just another show.
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  3. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

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    I remember how Dan Rather came out and said that former Bumbler President Bush Hr. dodged the Vietnam war, even though he was a pilot, because of "powerful friends', and the fact he was a drunk and cocaine head. CBS then forced him out. Everything Dan Rather said was true, and the Bumbling idiot President destroyed the country's economy, and stole that election. IMHO. When it was first reported it (Discovery)would be on CBS, I thought, something will go wrong, it it did, it has and CBS is is the vanguard of violating the trust it's license was given. I should have it's FCC license revoked. It no longer serves what it was suppose too. They have the worse programming over the air, and if they can't provide better, they should get out of the way. IMHO.

    A Discovery: CBS sucks.
  4. Revell-Fan

    Revell-Fan Co-Administrator Administrator Moderator

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    I'm looking forward to the distribution in Germany. Will it air on free TV, some ten years later, on a small niche TV station nobody ever knows and watches? And what about DVD and BR releases? Will they never come in order to artificially boost the subscription numbers? Hmm...

    One thing I did not understand is why the makers are so obsessed with everything BEFORE Spock & Kirk. That time frame is so limited in regards of story telling because you have to obey all the things that have been established in TOS, TNG, DS9 and Voyager. Even "Enterprise" had its problems and disobeyed the continuity on occasion (something that already started with "Voyager", to be exact ;) ). Why not showing a new future after Voyager has returned home? They could go completely wild and explore strange new worlds no-one has seen before, really, without being restrained by the established canon. Wiping everything out and setting everything in the Kelvin timeline is just pretty plain and lazy. JJ Trek is good for the movies to have a good time but it never felt like "true" Trek. They are fun, no doubt about that, but it is not Trek. Just compare it to "The Wrath of Khan" or "The Undiscovered Country". Both had space battles, tension, and great characters. JJ Trek is just... Bang boom bang, jumping about and zipping through space pursued by a baddie in a big spaceship. Please don't get me wrong, it is fun to watch, I enjoy them, but nothing beats the classic.

    These two give some very clever thoughts on that matter:



    The best moment is when they ask themselves which Star Trek universe they would like to live in, and this brings it straight to the point. :)
    THE DC likes this.
  5. subnuke

    subnuke Moderator Intelligence Extraordinaire Moderator

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    I only got about 20 minutes in to it before I had to change the channel. It was bad. Watching it, I could not tell where it fit in the timeline. The script seemed all gee whiz and wonder with no story. These weren't adults on a complicated ship but dreamers in a fantasy land. JJ Trek was way better than this and more like Star Trek. I don't know what that garbage was but I'm kind of glad it was bad, now I don't have to spend another penny on it.
  6. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

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    CBS has shot themselves in the foot. The beginning was better that "TNG" Star Trek, could anything have been worse? Alas, I have not met or know of one person who would be willing to pay for it so it is dead on arrival. Of course, someone might post on this thread that they are willing too. I would advise them to invest their money wisely. At the end of the year, that would more than pay for the disc brake pads on even the most expensive of cars that most of us could own. IMHO
  7. Revell-Fan

    Revell-Fan Co-Administrator Administrator Moderator

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    Indeed! If I had the choice I would buy the entire season on BR / DVD to binge-watch it instead of a subscription because I would have something to keep from it which I could still enjoy for years afterwards and not only for the short time the subscription lasts. I once was considering a subscription for "Buck Rogers" before the DVD sets were available. The show was treated very badly in Germany; it was shown only three times on German Free TV (partially in 1984/1985, complete in 1990 & 1991/1992). There were occasional syndications on Dutch TV during the early 90s which I religiously watched because there was nothing available elsewhere, and I had no VCR at that time. Internet? Forget it. ;) In the early 2000s SciFi Germany (yep, it was "SciFi" and not "SyFy" then ;) ) decided to show the series again. However, to watch it you would need a subscription. I was thinking back and forth and weighing the pros and cons and finally decided against it because I simply could not justify spending 20 bucks a month only to watch one show. And no-one could guarantee that I would be able to see the entire series once I subscribed. :( So I waited till something wonderful happened: The DVD sets were made available. I instantly grabbed one of each, so Buck finally arrived at my place. :) Later, in 2014, the show was seen on German Free TV again which allowed me to record the German version of it (the DVDs are in English only) to make my collection complete.

    IMO the distribution of this new ST show is so flawed. I too don't know anyone who would deliberately subscribe it. I wouldn't subscribe either. Which makes me sad because CBS could get totally wrong assessments of the success of the show. If they measure it on the number of subscriptions the show is DOA, as you said. It would be a disaster for the makers who from what I have already seen were trying hard to produce a top-notch show. Even if the quality of the episodes would raise in the next few weeks the whole effort would be in vain if the numbers don't get high enough. So if it gets cancelled, will CBS say it was due to crappy work delivered by the makers and the cast or would they go the easy route and say people were not interested in Star Trek any longer? How would they be able to differ? If they only look at the numbers it is easy for them to say that people are not interested in ST any longer and stop everything which might come thereafter, meaning, no more Trek. They won't see that people do not watch it because of that damned subscription and if it was still free people WOULD be watching it because they really WANT new Trek.
  8. micahrogers

    micahrogers ...And the Wife...

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    I have seen the first two episodes, and will watch the third, actually the first to see the Discovery, before I make up my mind... the wife has CBS All Access to watch BB and Survivor live feeds... so I might as well watch ST D
  9. Revell-Fan

    Revell-Fan Co-Administrator Administrator Moderator

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    Well, I guess there is nothing holding you back to do so if you already have it ! :)
  10. THE DC

    THE DC Highly Esteemed Member

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    [These two give some very clever thoughts on that matter:



    The best moment is when they ask themselves which Star Trek universe they would like to live in, and this brings it straight to the point. :)]



    Thanks for sharing that.

    I'm going to restrain myself regarding the show's merits, or lack of, as I am sure those of you who know me from previous comments have already guessed my position. Besides...there's a limit to the number of characters I can post, right?

    I will share my concerns that coincide with Zathros'.

    Last I checked, CBS was a U.S. base company that made its fortune off U.S. citizen's viewership, enjoyed the benefits of the U.S. airwaves (technically the property of the citizenry), cools their offices & lights their sets with publicly funded power plants, travels over U.S. roads and airports, and even enjoys the freedoms of a U.S. Constitution that allow it the freedom of expression.

    Is it not like a spoiled child that they now allow everyone else in the world access to this series, EXCEPT for the people that fostered their ability to produce it?

    Am I this only one who feels a bit exploited; that this selfish child now demands more from those that built it?

    Maybe they are just too big to fail? The future will tell for their small, spin-off network system...
    Revell-Fan and zathros like this.
  11. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

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    I could not have said it better DC. This is a clear rip off. I feel the FCC should pull their license, or make them reimburse the citizenry, with interest. Excellent point.
  12. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

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    PLEASE, KEEP THIS THREAD GOING!!!
  13. Revell-Fan

    Revell-Fan Co-Administrator Administrator Moderator

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    Just checked it: There is a limit of 10.000 characters per post (I got curious). ;)
  14. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

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    You can always continue into a next post. I would caution it hard better be very very good, or I would delete it. Different if it was a story someone was posting as such.

    That could actually make a good section! Members Fiction!! Probably a teaser with the main text in a .zip file in the Resource Section.:)
  15. Revell-Fan

    Revell-Fan Co-Administrator Administrator Moderator

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  16. Rhaven Blaack

    Rhaven Blaack ADMINISTRATOR Administrator Moderator

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    Honestly, I would not be surprised if CBS paid off the FCC just to get the privilege to do jsut what they are doing so that they could compete with Netflix and other companies like it.
  17. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

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  18. ARMORMAN

    ARMORMAN FOUNDATION CORNERSTONE

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    Well....they could always contact a group of guys who have a pretty good understanding of the Pre-Kirk Trek universe and finance their little Axanar project....but that would be admitting that the studio execs are out of touch (much like a lot of Hollywood)....
    Rhaven Blaack and zathros like this.
  19. THE DC

    THE DC Highly Esteemed Member

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    Okay, you twisted my arm...

    A Great Bird once said to me that when writing whatever entertainment you create, do it for the SMARTEST man in the room. Much of what has been created under the guise of Star Trek has not been very smart.

    We have plenty of video games, and fiction based upon those games. We don't need high potential fiction watered down into chases and lens-flair.

    I suggest Trek is high potential fiction, not as some fan-boy gibbered, but as an intelligent person seeking a little intellectual stimulation in my entertainment. This is not a snobbish attitude but the comments of a purveyor of fiction that enjoys a variety in his diet.

    Star Wars provides enough fantasy and action, and Battlestar Galactica enough Chariots-of-the Gods speculation for pure melodrama. But a diet of cotton candy alone runs thin. I do not demean these works but quote what their very authors described them to be and accept them at that stated goal. I can enjoy them in that intended vein.

    Trek was never everyone's cup of tea (pushing my food imagery to the limits!) but it offered what Gene Roddenberry described as the modern Greek fable; action and drama with less melodrama, comedy with less farce, and the consideration of social issues of the time without snubbing the intelligence of its audience by making absolutist conclusions. The best Trek (and not all episodes were "best" of course), suggested different viewpoints, inviting debate and intellectual consideration. They weren't reflections of a "liberal" or "conservative" perception, but a debate of a point of view, or a contrast of the two perceptions. Dressing up actors in pointed ears, beards, and forehead latex allowed for the discussion of war, race relations, and other significant human issues in a way the didn't require preaching or concrete solution-pandering. The discussion wasn't closed (or closed-minded) but encouraged the questioning and mental debate of the viewer.

    I object to using a platform capable of such potential, described by its author as aspiring to that potential (during a period of time when televised entertainment was so strongly censored), as a melodramatic farce, filled with more explosions than thoughts, and characters based upon the worst reflections of human potential, instead of those striving to be the best. I don't object to fun-Trek, but I do to shallow-Trek.

    Writing to the smartest person in the room requires not only intelligent, scientifically plausible, and rich, complicated storylines, but as well, material that suggests care and effort. Its hard work. It's challenging to its viewer. It also stands a real test of time, holding up over generations, since its themes are universal and extend beyond the immediate political zeitgeist, and even changes for the viewer as they age, mature and find their perceptions of the same story altered with their life experience. It's a funhouse mirror with a goal greater than fun; a goal to make thinking and reasoning a fun activity.

    Issues of continuity are one way of demonstrating this. Whether certain beings look similar to previous episodes or movies, or the insignia worn on costumes reflect previously established canon, are not issues of mere nitpicking, but they suggestions of effort and detail of a writer. They reflect the quality of preparation and execution. Making the continuity sharp and consistent appeals to "the smartest man in the room," as it aids in the suspension of disbelief of that intellect. Failing to remember the main character's name every episode would reflect incredible disinterest in the care or effort of the author toward the presented material, but failing to reflect other continuity issues are just another example of sloppy workmanship, even if less extreme.

    I must be reaching the limit of my space, but I wish to suggest that the problem with the recently presented incarnations of Trek are less a reflection of the inability (or insincerity) of a writer (or writers) but more a reflection of the disdain and disrespect for the "smartest man in the room," by the authors, and the presumption of those writers who they think that you are; the intellect of the person who tuned in. One could speculate that the same engine that cranks out effect-driven stories have enough disrespect for their viewers that they might even expect those viewers to pay more for their product than is reasonable to expect. They might even have so much disregard as to suggest that the fan-base that they hope would fund it should bear a greater burden than the potential customers they wish to also draw in. Such an absurdity would be reflected in producing low-brow entertainment but require the viewer to pay for a specific streaming service, even though others outside of the culture and society that spawned the industry, would get to pay less for the same storyline.

    Produce low quality story-work with little regard to making the continuity and characterization tight, because you perceive the potential fan base as so desperate and stupid that they will not only pay for anything, but even pay more than their remote neighbors. The convolutions of such twisted thinking could be broken down to the simple assertion of disrespect for the material, the viewer, and in sum, even the responsibility of the entertainer for the entertained.

    I prefer entertainment that respects my potential and makes at least a modest effort to challenge me toward it.




    Whew! That soap box can really totter when I'm up on it...

    :-}
  20. spaceagent-9

    spaceagent-9 Right Hand Man and Confidant Moderator

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    It's simply not fun anymore. If you don't see kids playing pretend of the show, its not worth anything. I watched Rouge and my favorite guy was the blind dude, when did he become my favorite character? When he walked out in the fire fight saying, ''I am one with the force, the force is one with me..'' he had guts. plain and simple. It was fun. Spock and Kirk and even Scotty was fun. Lost in Space was fun. I have to agree that things like The Andromeda Strain, make great science fiction and are intellectually interesting, but what I have seen recently is intensity ramped up to full and then a big let down. I would have liked to see the Romulan war with Daedalus class starships and cylinder Romulan ships or even old style Klingons. Axanar was way more what I would have paid to see. I don't like groaning every time I see something that doesn't jive with T.O.S. continuity. I guess what I'm trying to say is that here was a great opportunity to make everyone happy, and instead just became a political flat tire instead of a long awaited inspiration.