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Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by doc_harvey, May 11, 2005.
Last i heard,these guys had been withdrawn from cirulation.Where did you find them?
It is understood the designer withdrew and requested halt to distribution.
Simple parsing would indicate billmcc is the one who violated the designer's prerogative in this instance.
And please dont get me wrong, I am not wanting to initiate the copyright wars of past postings. There are terms set forth in the user agreement here. They apply to here, this forum, if someone passes along something via their email, and not thru this forum, something that others may find "questionable", well, thats not "our" (meaning members of the forum) business, thats between the parties involved.
Now on the otherhand, if one was to pass this type stuff via this forum, then I could see trouble. But, I feel somewhat responsible for mentioning that I saw hewey, dewey and louies legs in the back ground of Docs pic.
However, how he came about these is of no concern to me and as long as it was not thru here, it shouldnt be of anyone elses concern.
I say appreciate them for what they are, fantastic looking models. Applaud doc on his good work and lets all try not to micro manage.
We all know there are models that are out of print, or that have been pulled for whatever reason, but lets be realistic, someone does have those models, and what they do with them away from here, is up to them.
And since the USA and most of Europe grant "implied" copyrights to authors, photographers and intellectual property, I would be willing to guess that everyone here that has ever posted a photo, a drawing not their own, or used any insignia or design not their own has committed the same type infraction inferred in this threads above postings.
I hate to "preach", I just didnt want Bill or Doc to take things the wrong way, a direction which I fear this thread would take If I didnt speak up.
Anyway, Doc, Great looking models, you are fortunate to have them and we are fortunate to have gotten to see them, thanks for the opportunity.
Greg aka GEEDUBBYA(GW)
I hope the designer will reconsider and release his fantastic models again.
Per doc_harvey edit, the thread should probaly be deleted as he suggests.
No violation would have been noted if the "Trinity" had not been made (models shown+source indicated+query made).
Howdy again Guys,
Once again, allow me to preface my comments with a disclaimer of sorts. Being the Vice President and Chief shop steward of my local Union, it is just my nature to and responsibility to defend all persons. (Not that Doc or Bill need defending here, this is more of a defense of an Idea) And I know that at times, I do get carried away and this aspect of my life bleeds over into my home life, away from work.
And, by no means should anything I say be taken personally by anyone here. Should I say something that a person or persons take offense to, please let it be known that is/was not my intent. And, also I do realize I do not have the final say on anything here in the forum, that is the administrators function and their call, and that being said, I am only trying to point out what I see from the material presented to me.
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So, having posted that, I contend that no "infraction/violation" was made. (at least not according to these terms). There is (and I hate using this term) circumstantial evidence, but no solid proof that anything "illegal" was done on this site. As I stated in an earlier post, I would guess that anyone who has posted any picture, drawing and/or "quote" (even some of the avatars used by persons here are copyrighted and trademarked) would be just as guilty of the inferred infraction in this thread.
What people do away from the forum is their business, what they do in their email is ther business.
Now whether this posting is removed is up to Doc and the administrators, and I realize this thread has gotten away from "modeling" and delved into the dreaded topic of "right and wrong". But, I still congradulate Doc on an excellant build, thank him for the opportunity to see these models and hope that he wont let the "ruckus" I have stirred, deter him from posting.
Should the posting be deleted by the administrators, I am quite sure it will be for going "off topic" from modeling, not for the photos of the fantastic models which Doc posted.
Again, please......and I cant stress this enough, do not take anything I said here personally...anyone. These were just my views and opinions on the tangient this thread has taken, due mainly in part to me.
thanks for listening, and I will continue to read on in this thread, but, will no longer contribute to it.
Greg aka Geedubbya[/u][/b]
Apologies to all
I am deeply sorry if I have broken any trusts, laws, regulations or promises...I will voluntarily remove myself from the site if needed. I apologize to the web site administrators for having shown or shared any copywritten material that I felt was public domain. I would, of course, prefer to remain a member in good standing and would be very thankful if someone could just delete this entire thread.
Doc, I wouldn't worry, and certainly don't go no where. I seem to remember that the 3 robots were offered as free downloads awhile back. I didn't download them then because I'm not into these type of models. My kids are though. I've followed this thread and your builds to know that a, they are good builds, b, you didn't know there was any "infringement". How are we to know that a publisher/ designer is going to recall his previously free models. Heck there are thousands of freebies out there, whos going thru those to see that a designer has recalled them. The other issue is leave the maybe, could be, might have infractions/tresspasses/infringements/transgressions to our own administrators and site police. Looking at our band of brothers here I think we are all adult and honorable to know when we have crossed a line. We should all be aware that kit designers work is simply thiers, and thankyou all designers, if you steal thier designs you did just that, every religion in the world has a Thou shalt not clause, and thats it. I agree let this rest, post your builds with the best info you have at the time, after all think of the Catholics that are in Hell doing time on the can't eat meat on friday rap, now that they can.
we will not remove anyone for showing models from another site who "shut down" and didn't want to distribute models
i have no problem with models being shown, that have been given to someone who has asked for them.
i have been given models from sites that no longer exist, and i have posted them myself
I don't see any crime committed here what so ever. If the models were at one point released for free download, and one downloaded them, then by all means build the things! They were made and released to be built regardless
of what happened after the fact. Doc, don't worry about a thing GW,
nonsense in the 'Terms'. I don't mean this as a slight GW. Believe me, I appreciate and admire your dedication and welcoming spirit here and wouldn't want it any other way. It's just simpler to point to the rules
Now, can we end this portion of the thread?
All my best!
My disclaimer: I am a model designer, a card engineer, it is just my nature, and responsibility, to defend, those of my trade and skill.
The designer of these requested them not to be distributed, after a certain incident. This designer's work has been commented on many times and this condition made known.
The accusation is made in an open forum, visible to all, like jaywalking in front of a police car.
This sort of flagrant disrespect and obliviousness to the designers' usage permission is the very reason I have stopped releasing free models for the sake of being free models.
I should rephrase that to...
If the models were 'legally' downloaded during the time they were originally released, I don't see any harm in them being built at a time chosen by the builder be it prior to the recall or 20 years later.
Lets give this thread a rest.
Not to deny anyone access, or stop people from trading under the table, but public admission of such is the act under scrutiny.
You may not have witnessed the unaltered post.
doc_harvey thanked billmcc (now edited out of the original post). Circumstantial context of acquisition method.
Subsequent posts did not counter, but admitted the fact.
He had not legally downloaded it, but received it long after revocation and outside the standing terms of possession of the file.
Between ringmaster query, and doc_harvey initial statement it cascaded to this point. I was certainly not a calming agent.
The point: two words caused tension.
Solution: don't admit publicly to trading files privately, especially when the designer has made them unavailable for whatever their reason, and more so if they have requested a halt to distribution.
Don't become a liability.