Smoke

Discussion in 'G / O / S Scale Model Trains' started by jimbogibbo, Dec 20, 2007.

  1. jimbogibbo

    jimbogibbo Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2006
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    0
    Does anyone know if their is A way to adjust the smoke that does not billow out of my lionel locos. The smoke unit is working ,it just puts out a little bit of smoke?:cry:wall1:confused:
  2. Dr. John

    Dr. John Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2003
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    0
    Which Lionel engine do you have and what is its age? Unfortunately, some Lionel steamers have anemic smoke units to begin with. Some PW models that use the smoke "pills" can get gunked up and require cleaning. And, some smoke fluids work better than others. So there's several variables here to consider.
  3. Renovo PPR

    Renovo PPR Just a Farmer

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2006
    Messages:
    1,043
    Likes Received:
    0
    There can be as many solutions as there are types of locomotives. Sometimes it is a simple answer such as the size of the transformer. For example my PE locomotive produces more smoke when used with a 100 watt MTH z-1000 transformer than it does with the Lionel CW-80 transformer. When operated with my 180 bricks it is outstanding.

    Now for my older Lionel locomotive I had the smoke unit updated to a modern one. This will now out perform any new engine on the market. I like using JT's Mega Steam.

    So if you want smoke there is always a fix but sometimes it might take a combination of changes to produce the best. Though I will note almost all new modern engines and locomotives smoke well but then again I operate them with the power from two 180 bricks and a TPC 400 in TMCC conventional.

    Here is a photo of my POST WAR locomotive with a new smoke unit using JT's Mega Steam. You can also find this photo on the JT's Mega Steam web site. Mega-Steam Smoke Fluid

    [​IMG]
  4. Chief Eagles

    Chief Eagles Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,858
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here it is: Open up the smoke unit;
    Post War, clean it out. Will probably look like melted chocolate goop inside. Throw away wicking. Clean out the air hole [looks like a little chimney]. Get some pink insulation [yes in your attic]. Pack it in the bottom of the bowl making sure it does not cover the air inlet [that little chimney] but touches the heating element. If heating element is chared, clean it but do not break the wires or replace it. Now soak the pink. Put top on. Besure you have a good ground. Check the piston below the unit and insure it is traveling completely to the top and dropping almost out. If not, can be adjusted by bending the "flapper" that pushes it up.

    New non fan driven units;
    same as above but you do not have a flapper to bend like the old ones. You will have a round element. Cut that sleave off [sock looking thing over element]. If chared, clean element. Pack pink insulation as above. Be sure element touches pink real well. Put top back on.

    New fan driven. Top off of the unit [the printed circuit board], apply power and watch fan direction. It should rotate clock wise [the vanes will be bent backwards, not forwards as scooping the air]. If they are turning counter clockwise, unplug the fan power at the white plug. Reverse the black and red wires [insert and straight pin in and collapse the plastic barb locking it in, pull out, do the other wire, reverse them and push back in until locked]. Now cut the sleave off of the element. Clean element. Throw away the wicking. Install pink insulation. Enough but not blocking air slot from fan chamber. Be sure element touches the pink real well. Soak. Put top on. She will smoke. JT's is great. Caution. Keep it wet. Most folks do not use enough smoke fluid. JT's will smoke great but burn up faster. So keep it loaded. Too much fluid. Turn it over and it will drip out. Usually, just continous running will evaporate it and start smoking.
  5. ozzy

    ozzy Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes Received:
    0
    as a rule all lionel engines dont put out much smoke when everything is working right,, at the club we took a 2007 lionel engine and an 2007 MTH engine, and the MTH smoked us out, could hardly see any in the lionel. you can mess up an MTH by putting to much fluid in like the lionel's.
  6. Chief Eagles

    Chief Eagles Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,858
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sorry Ozzy, you are mistaken. Newer Lionels smoke great. Older ones modified like I said above do too.

    Modified Lionels
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Modified Post War
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Just a few of my trains that have been modified.

    See what you can do if you know what you are doing.
  7. ozzy

    ozzy Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes Received:
    0
    well the 4 new lionels i have (bought in the last 2 years) cant hold a candle to my MTH. and 4 other guys at the club that run both brands seem to agree. that all i know . hey them are nice pics, its cool how they go through the wall, i want to do that but the wife said no...lol


    PS. wheres the smoke in the pics? teasing... i will tray to get a pic of my fav, mth engine smoking and post it,
  8. Chief Eagles

    Chief Eagles Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,858
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ozzy, I have MTH too. Atlas also. I run TMCC, Legacy and DCS. All are great.
  9. Renovo PPR

    Renovo PPR Just a Farmer

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2006
    Messages:
    1,043
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm not into swapping material in my units but it does work for a few people. However the new Lionel's do in fact put out as much or more smoke than MTH. My new Lionel locomotive and diesel that I have bought in the past year can match the many MTH engines I have.

    I will say that my non modified Lionel work much better than yours chief. Now I guess I have to get some more photographs taken over the weekend. When I say unmodified I did a total replacement of the unit with a newer unit for a few dollars. The "insulation" trick aggravates my asthma too much often resulting in serious attacks.

    Note: as an unfortunate expert on respiratory problems using fiber glass in a smoke unit WILL expel air born particles of glass that can result in serious problems with those that have a respiratory problem. My suggestion is to leave it in the attic.
  10. ozzy

    ozzy Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes Received:
    0
    and i have found that the lionels are way to easy to "flood" but when my 10 year old puts a 1/2 a bottle in my MTH (when my back was turned) it still smoked right off, never missed a beat, no waiting.


    took pics but file to big to post i guess, got to wait till the wife gets home, im not smart enough to resize them....(dont tell her i admitted that...lol)


    what happened to the emails saying someone posted to a thread? im lost without them.
  11. Chief Eagles

    Chief Eagles Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,858
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ozzy, MTH fluid will smoke like all get out. Problem is it will not dissipate like JT's. I've passed this link to Jon Engelhart. He's from Iowa and is in the Patriot Guard too. He's been psoting on the Coffee Pot in the Caboose here.
  12. Buckeye........

    Buckeye........ Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    0
    One thing that I have found after repairing several Lionel Smoke Units is the fan driven units are often wired backwards. Even the hot box reefer cars are wired incorrectly. When corrected and run with 15-17 volts, they will smoke you out.
  13. Chief Eagles

    Chief Eagles Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,858
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, Buckeye pioneered our pink insulation for smoke units idea. :thumb: Every one of the Lionel smoke units I bought recently [4] to smoke dummies, tunred in reverse.:rolleyes:
  14. dbaker48

    dbaker48 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    0
    Who's a good source for the smoke unit? That's a great idea about installing one in a dummy. Kind of tricking to syncronize the puff isn't it? Or does it put out a constant flow??

    I have big time respect for the Patriot Guard, fortunately we havn't seen any of the demonstrations out here, at least none that I am aware of of.
  15. ozzy

    ozzy Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes Received:
    0

    i have only used lionel and mth fluid, maybe i should try others, i do like the mth tho.
  16. ozzy

    ozzy Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes Received:
    0
    you know, i was just thinking last night that i wished my dummies in my ABA texas SP mth set.
  17. Chief Eagles

    Chief Eagles Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,858
    Likes Received:
    0
    Guys, it is a long to explain but easy process to do [or for me it is]. I can't take the time right now but will do a separate thread on it with pictures. Buckeye and Chuck will remember this from CTT forum. MTH, call parts and tell them you want to power a dummy. They will sell you parts that is pickups, insulators, screws, bolts, nuts and wires [already connected]. From there you can light and smoke dummies. Lionel, you do the same. Atlas comes with pickups and etc [they just don't put in the can motors with their gear].

    Later
  18. dbaker48

    dbaker48 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    0
    Chief,
    Will be watching, I just received from MTH a lighting upgrade kit for a dummy unit. I probably wikll only need to pick up a smoke unit. Sounds good. (You should think about sending the information in to a magazine for publication.)
  19. Chief Eagles

    Chief Eagles Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,858
    Likes Received:
    0
    New Lionel NS SD40-2 will smoke you out of the room. Looks like it needs a rebuild. Has Legacy. Chip came with it in the box.
  20. dbaker48

    dbaker48 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    0
    Is that one of those alternative design (purple) smoke units?sign1