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Discussion in 'Tips, Tutorials & Tools' started by cgutzmer, Feb 19, 2012.
reference pictures continued
oh wow! THis is gonna take me a while to digest! I will get started after work and let ya know my progress tonight! Really great stuff here John. Thanks a bunch!
OK! Been working on this a while... did it over several times and never get past this....
Go to EDIT/Groups/Group, carefully select the smaller pieces one at a time, If you select the wrong part, Hold Ctrl Down and click the wrong part again to deselect it. Press Enter when done.
Each time I added a part to the boat I joined them to that really the top is all one piece and the bottom is all one piece. I cannot figure out what the smaller pieces are you are referring too. Probably obvious once you tell me
Pretty cool using the mirror and stuff!
Oh yeah - this line:
Now, put ORTHO on and drag the Yellow model so that both transoms line up
I couldnt find where I should have turned it off (Unless this was a reminder just to make sure it was on!)
Great stuff here Zathros - might make a model someday! Oh wait I am already with your help
The only pieces you join are the side curves, to make one long curve, but you do not join the opposing side curves to each other. You cannot join the pieces all together, or you cannot "Run 2 Rails" as the transom will be part of the side curves. Think of it this way, you aren't making a boat, you are making parts of a boat. The transom is never part of the side of a boat, even when glued together. A boat is a collection of the individual pieces. That is why the lines can't be joined. The side curves were joined to complete that aspect of that part of the boat ( and to teach you the join command).
The reason I did the sides like that was to teach you how to Mirror Parts.
If I mention Ortho, it is just a reminder to make sure it is toggled On or Off.
The smaller parts refer to the smaller boat outline that you made when you copied the original outline, moved it, and scaled it down. The scaled down parts are the "smaller parts". Grouping the parts allows you to move around whole sections. They are not joined, and Grouping does not interfere with creating surfaces, but does allow you to Bend a bunch of parts at the same time.
It would be easier if you started all over. I do this a lot. Always save your work along the way too. (You can do that under "EDIT") I corrected some of my spelling errors, I think I got all of them.
Start over again, and don't do anything extra, like "joining lines" unless specifically told too. Post a picture of what you have. This is easiest done by pressing the PrintScreen button on your Keyboard and either Pasting, or Importing the picture from your Clipboard into Paint, or XNview, or whatever program you use for these kind of things. I highly recommend XNView. Do it exactly the way it is written. Let me know if you have any more problems with the instructions and I will modify the explanation, or explain the technique.
I'm not sure I have that many secrets to share. I tend to keep things simple.
I am waiting for the part of the tutorial when we can add textures. So far all I can do is project panel lines and markings. Coloring and textures have to happen in Photoshop.
When Chris catches up, and posts a picture of his boat, I will show how one can add texture. I think this feature in Rhino is limited, but can be the basis for some good Photoshop work.
I think if you started a thread on how you do panel lines, it would be of great value. I think your panels lines are fantastic, some of the best I have seen actually. I also believe you have VERY much to offer!!
Posting your method of making models from 3 way views for instance. I would like to see how you do that. I think you are an extremely talented designer, I was really hoping you would join in. Please do!! Start a new thread and explain whatever you wish in it. I know I will be eagerly following .
Actually, if I remember correctly, there's already a thread on here explaining how to design in Rhino using a 3-view. I read it a long time ago, and follow it pretty much step by step every time.
But I think I will do a thread on how I design. I've gotten a few questions on how to do it anyway.
THanks! That makes sense John Now I understand the concept of rails better too - YAY MISTAKES! heh heh had a kids concert last night so didnt get anything done but hope too tonight!
Glad to have ya peeking in Aaron. Hope to see that panel line tutorial (or complete writeup whatever ya happen to write)
That would be great. It may end up a sticky here, if you don't mind. The three panel YouTube video was of so low resolution and sped up so much, it was really useless. Drawing up from three line views producing craft that are somewhat similar to the real ones, but they lose a lot of accuracy. I try to stick to plans with formers. This limits what I do. I have to be honest. I don't post models I make. I never release them. I make them for friends or family members. I try and share knowledge, and I know some have questioned me for that. I don't think that will change. I have helped people design parts for their models, but I ted to lead a very private life. I am willing to share what I know, as little as it is. I would like to see how you make a plane from three views as I think you do an excellent job at it.
The problem is my home internet connection sucks those chinese century eggs, so posting a picture intensive tutorial thread is a major pain in the keister. I started a tutorial on the other site, and managed to get two parts up. I've been trying for the past 6 hours to upload just the first picture for the second part. I've already pulled my own hair out, and exhausted my repetoire of 4 letter words.
Not sure how you are doing it. If you posted them here, they would have gone up quicker!!...............Just kidding. I would do the screen grabs with the "Pint Screen" button and paste it into XNView. XNView saves jpegs really small, but still with great resolution. I suspect your jpegs are big. My pics average 85 kbs.
XNView is free, just Google the name XNView. You would "Import from Clipboard" to get the image from the "Print Screen" operation, (the clipboard).
try try again... ok, I tried a few more times and cant get past sweeping the rails. I can get the sides and stern to sweep but not the bottom. It keeps going to some chain command thing. Sorry if this is frustrating for you. Move on if you would like and I will catch up if I can get there.
Look at the pictures I just posted. The 2 blue lines will form the "2 Rails", the Red Line will be what you select, You just select the lines in succession. there is no separate Command.Such that, "Run 2 Rails", you then select the 2 blue lines, then the red line, a box comes up, click O.K., and the surface will form.
For the sides, "Run 2 Rails", then select a green line, then a blue line underneath it, then select the magenta line, then when the dialog box comes up, click "O.K." Repeat for the other side.
If you get brave, "Run 2 Rails, using the Green lines, and the Black line, and you will have made a deck!
Select the 2 Magenta lines and either the top black line or the bottom red, to make the transom, it doesn't matter. Does this make sense?
Regarding ^^ What I would do, which is probably less efficient, is to type "Loft", then select the top and bottom curves. Make sure the control points are lined up right, and set to around 50, then press OK. Then "Mirror" to match both sides.
Regarding the tutorial...
I was pasting directly from print screen into Photoshop as layers in the same document. That way I only have to crop and resize once. I managed to get everything down to about 60-70 mb each. My connection sucks so bad that it's choking even on that little.
I'd post it here, but there's no image hosting feature. I'd have to upload to another site, then copy and paste to here. About 3 times the work.
What do you mean no image hosting? Just go to the advanced tab and load your picks, it's the same way you do it at the other site. 70 mb's is huge!! You sure you don't mean 70 kb.'s?
As I said in the beginning, the purpose of this tutorial is to show as many commands as I can. Loft has it's place but produces a less accurate result than running 2 rails.
In the attached pictures, the slight differences are show. the surfaces made by "Running the Rails" produce more detail lines that define the surface than the "Lofted' surface. In this model the difference is slight. When making a surface using formers, "Loft" becomes problematic in that the surfaces just don't come out right. I think "Loft" is good for simple shapes, and it a model as simple as this, it would not matter most. This is also why I would rather you start your own thread from start to finish, so people can see different ways to make parts. There is also the Surface from Curve network command, but I am not going to get into that as it is for much more complicated models. The Picture with the Red Surfaces are made from Surface From Curve Network, then the smash command used. With all the extra lines, it is virtually identical to the Run 2 Rails" command. Extra curves, for a total of 3 in each direction, must be made for the "Surface from Curve Network" command.
The surfaces made on the left are "Lofted" and "Unrolled", the surfaces on the right are made Running 3 Rails, then Unrolled. Even in this simple model, you can see the extra lines, thus extra detailed surface, compared to lofting. In reality, in a model like this, it would not matter, but as they more complicated it may.
Any surface made by Running 2 Rails, and using a straight Profile curve, can be unrolled. This is not true of lofting. For paper modeling, this is important. The again, there's the Smash command, which has it's uses, as does Squish. This may be useful for pesky surfaces, but involve some trial and error. Maybe even cutting out and seeing it if will fit.
got everything swept! looks good there. Working on the chine - got no idea what that is but I think its what makes it a v bottom boat? Not really getting it but will work on it later. Just too many steps to take in at once for my aged mind...
There are many instructions I have given here that if you learn, will allow you to make more complex models. That is why I did this tutorial like this. I could have made a 1 minute boat, but you would not have learned any of the many commands you have learned here. I stayed away from lofting because you end up with surfaces you cannot easily unfold many times, or end up with simplistic shapes that start a bad habit. When you Run the Rails, the parts edges are so close, you can join them. This allows you to make far more complex shapes that make a better model. The attached picture shows a complex shape that cannot be made by lofting. It is the body of the Cessna 210 I may or may not finish. I will use more colored lines to make it easier, I didn't think of that at the time.
Chines are the surfaces on the bottom of the boat. The original design we are doing here is a boat with a single chine, if each side had two surfaces, it would be a boat with a double chine. Google this stuff in the future, then you will know what you're working on.
I am going to show how to use enough commands to make models. Rearranging those commands and developing the insight on how to use them is something that cannot be taught. At some point soon, it will become only possible to answer specific questions on a project that is attempted. Then pictures of what you have done so far must be posted.
quick question - when I try to draw the chine it always goes to the top of the boat, not the bottom. Is there a trick to getting them on the bottom or am I really moving them all the way from the top to down underneath to make that nice contour? I can do it this way of course but want to make sure I am not missing the concept
Post a pic of how it looks. Then I can see where your off from. Double Click the "Perspective" view, that's usually the best view for figuring out problems. Do a screen grab.
Is anyone ready to move on?