Quiz and need help with Piper drawings

Discussion in 'Aircraft & Aviation' started by Leif Oh, Oct 2, 2006.

  1. Leif Oh

    Leif Oh Member

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    First to my little quiz - which is all about creating some interest for what I really need help with:

    Who can say which of the attached two aircrafts is a Piper PA-12 Super Cruiser (three-seater), and which is a Piper PA-14 Family Cruiser (four-seater)?

    Now don't go cheating and look up the registration or something like that! There really is at least two ways to tell the difference from just these photos (and it's not the wheel spats on one of the aircraft). For full marks, tell the rest of us how you spotted the difference.

    And now to the serious business: Can anybody help out with GOOD three-view drawings of any or both of these classic aircraft? I've been googling until my eyes got sore, and there are many beautiful photos - but no drawings, not even the usual low-resolution ones.

    So, please, any tips?

    Leif

    PS. Over at Kartonbau.de I have just published a reworking of the freeware Piper PA-14 Family Cruiser model. The original 1:48 scale model by J. Cookson was published as a promotion for the film "End of the Spear". I've scaled it to 1:87 and recoloured it slightly. Use this link to have a look at and download my reworked version of this nice model.

    Attached Files:

  2. imavingalaughaswell

    imavingalaughaswell Member

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  3. Leif Oh

    Leif Oh Member

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    Right, I noticed that one, and it is - unfortunately, as you say - as exquisite as it is expensive.

    No takers on the quiz? Already the promotion shot of the blueprint mentioned above should be of some help...

    Leif
  4. imavingalaughaswell

    imavingalaughaswell Member

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  5. Leif Oh

    Leif Oh Member

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    Yep! There is something missing from that drawing which is present in one of the aircraft, which makes that a PA-14. And there's another feature present in the PA-12 drawing, while it is missing from the photo of the PA-14. Those are the two ways I've found of telling the difference (if you can't make out the interior, which of course is a dead give-away).

    Thanks, by the way, even for this low resolution drawing. It is very desirable...

    Leif
  6. imavingalaughaswell

    imavingalaughaswell Member

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    is the difference the fairing on the wheels? its on the 14 but not the 12?
  7. Gil

    Gil Active Member

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    Piper Quest

    Hi Leif,

    Check your private email.

    -Gil
  8. Leif Oh

    Leif Oh Member

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    Gil, you are the best of jewels, as always!

    About the quiz, everybody: No, it's not the wheel spats, they could be added to each aircraft as an accessory.

    Go back to the good old J3. There is something fairly conspicuous in the photo of the PA-14 which is absent from both the J3 and the PA-12. This feature makes a fairly fundamental difference in the handling of an aircraft, and it is at least visible also in the photo of the PA-14.

    And there's something in the J3 - although harder to spot - which is there in the PA-12, but not in the PA-14.

    It's not the wheel spats, and not the enclosed engine.

    Warm thanks again, Gil!

    Leif
  9. rlwhitt

    rlwhitt Active Member

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    Leif, check PM
  10. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 Member

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    Ok, well the Blue plane is the PA-14, and it has the L shape to it's elevators. The J-3 and the PA-12 both have a straight I shape to the rudder hinge area.

    Still looking for the other difference.

    Ryan
  11. OldSalt

    OldSalt Member

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  12. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 Member

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    BTW since we're talking about J-3s... Here's a pic (for reference) of a J-3 I've flown some. I'm in the rear seat in the picture.

    [​IMG]
    Picture from the squadron album. Squadron link is http://www.als-cannonfield.com

    Ryan
  13. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 Member

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    Looks like the PA-14 has flaps as well, which the J-3 and PA-12 don't have.

    Ryan
  14. Artie Bob

    Artie Bob Member

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    Pa-14

    IIRC and per the photo, doesn't the PA-14 have flaps? One of my first flights was in not a PA-12, but a J-5, which was similar with wooden spar and uncowled engine (1946, about 60 years ago, so my memory is not always 100% reliable). BTW, while working as a line boy, I refueled a PA-12 that landed and taxied up with no less than 7 occupants. Did that really make it a "family cruiser"?

    Best Regards

    Artie Bob
  15. Larry Marshall

    Larry Marshall Member

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    Flaps on the 14, Leif.

    Cheers --- Larry
  16. Larry Marshall

    Larry Marshall Member

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    Aw, come on, Larry. Read all the msgs before writing.
  17. Gil

    Gil Active Member

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    An Additional Item?

    Hi Leif,

    Flaps and balance area on the horizontal stab seem to be the items of discovery. Noticed an additional item. The cowl and carb air inlet are different the PA-14 has greater streamlining than the -12. That is unless the one in the picture is not to original equipment specifciations....,

    -Gil

    P.S. Thanks for the 1:87 model! Now for an interior in 1:87 and a beauty build contest....,
  18. Leif Oh

    Leif Oh Member

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    And I got to learn something as well!

    Thanks guys for participating with such gusto. You are not only right, you spotted another difference which I hadn't noticed until now - that is the L-shaped balance area on the elevator of the PA-14 Family Cruiser.

    The winner, therefore, is "rlwhitt" who was shy to admit that he or she had used a card model sheet for reference. That is of course not only legitimate but admirable! Three cheers for being the first one - and teaching me something new.

    The other main difference is of course the flaps on the PA-14.

    What no-one noticed, or perhaps thought about, is that the PA-14 has full one-piece doors on booth sides, while the PA-12 has that only on the right side and retains the original closed J3-style left side, which is visible by the extra thin window post on that side (marks a sliding window instead of a door).

    Thanks also for the tip on the Paul Matt drawings. They are of course the standard you should always refer to first.

    Many thanks for taking part in the quiz, and for helping out!

    Leif

    Attached Files:

  19. Leif Oh

    Leif Oh Member

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    As for the apparent difference in cowl streamlining, Gil, I'm wondering whether this could possibly be an effect of different camera angles, focal length, etc.?

    Here's another comparison. Is there a real difference in shape between the two models? I don't think so, but it would be interesting to know for sure.

    Another puzzling fact is that the PA-14 below doesn't have a door on the left side. But it still retains the full window (no sliding part).

    Leif

    Attached Files:

  20. Bengt F

    Bengt F Active Member

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    Piper PA-14 Family Cruiser Card Model

    Hello Leif,

    Thanks for doing a recolouring on the Piper PA-14 from the film "The End of The Spear". It certainly needs a much warmer tone, something like the new 'upgraded' version available from Fiddlers Green.
    IMHO, it could be a bit warmer red-yellow still - I think it is still a bit to greenish.

    Re. the 1:87 scale:
    Would it be possible for you to make a larger scale version available? As you probably know, I always upscale my card models to about 1:33 or 1:24. My just eyesight isnĀ“t that good these days for building in tiny 1:87 scale.
    Perhaps you could do a three-page recoloured version in 1:48?

    Hoping for the best,
    Bengt :grin: