Pre-Dreadnought Ting-Yuen 1895

Discussion in 'Ship & Watercraft Models' started by bholderman, Jul 22, 2005.

  1. bholderman

    bholderman Member

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    I'm doing this at home this time. Thus, Im using a different program to resize photos, its coming out a bit different, sorry folks.

    Brad
  2. bholderman

    bholderman Member

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    I'm doing this at home this time. Thus, Im using a different program to resize photos, its coming out a bit different, sorry folks.

    Brad
  3. emayday

    emayday Member

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    Hi Brad,

    I admire you guys that dabble in re-sizing, re-coloring and re-anything. If its not in the format I'm looking for, I have to leave it alone! Ohhhh, maybe one day..........

    Fine Job!

    Ed
  4. emayday

    emayday Member

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    Hi Brad,

    I admire you guys that dabble in re-sizing, re-coloring and re-anything. If its not in the format I'm looking for, I have to leave it alone! Ohhhh, maybe one day..........

    Fine Job!

    Ed
  5. Jim Krauzlis

    Jim Krauzlis Active Member

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    Hi, Brad! :D

    She's moving along rather nicely, even with a few bumps along the way, and looking very good! If you remove and do the dragon ornaments separately it will probably have the added benefit of some depth that will give the illusion of a carving, which is really a good thing, no? :D

    Looking forward to seeing more as you go along...she's coming out great!

    Cheers!

    Jim
  6. Jim Krauzlis

    Jim Krauzlis Active Member

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    Hi, Brad! :D

    She's moving along rather nicely, even with a few bumps along the way, and looking very good! If you remove and do the dragon ornaments separately it will probably have the added benefit of some depth that will give the illusion of a carving, which is really a good thing, no? :D

    Looking forward to seeing more as you go along...she's coming out great!

    Cheers!

    Jim
  7. bholderman

    bholderman Member

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    Thanks.

    Ive, got 2 things 2 work on currently and the way things are going, I'm not sure how long it will take.

    First, I'm ready to start recolouring the hull and main structures. That probably won't take too long, but the opportunity to reprint (we've been slammed at work in addition to losing an employee) main be a week or so.

    Second, the rectangular portholes. Historic photos show these along with a white cover (when in its "dress" paint scheme) of some sort, I haven't been able to get a decent detail of these covers.

    Last, and this is more of a question I need some feedback on. The original model is quite simple, is it "kosher" to lift pieces from similar models? I recently won the Pre-Dreadnought Duilio (1:200) off of ebay and some of the pieces look like they would help the Ting Yuen immensley. In this reagrds I'm talking fairly generic structures (i.e. lifeboat cranes, etc).

    I've seen permission needed from the original designers at times for alterations to models in various threads from time to time. Thus, where is this boundary drawn?

    Any feedback would be appreciated.

    Cheers,
    Brad
  8. bholderman

    bholderman Member

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    Thanks.

    Ive, got 2 things 2 work on currently and the way things are going, I'm not sure how long it will take.

    First, I'm ready to start recolouring the hull and main structures. That probably won't take too long, but the opportunity to reprint (we've been slammed at work in addition to losing an employee) main be a week or so.

    Second, the rectangular portholes. Historic photos show these along with a white cover (when in its "dress" paint scheme) of some sort, I haven't been able to get a decent detail of these covers.

    Last, and this is more of a question I need some feedback on. The original model is quite simple, is it "kosher" to lift pieces from similar models? I recently won the Pre-Dreadnought Duilio (1:200) off of ebay and some of the pieces look like they would help the Ting Yuen immensley. In this reagrds I'm talking fairly generic structures (i.e. lifeboat cranes, etc).

    I've seen permission needed from the original designers at times for alterations to models in various threads from time to time. Thus, where is this boundary drawn?

    Any feedback would be appreciated.

    Cheers,
    Brad
  9. Renaud

    Renaud Member

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    Ting Yuen and Duilio

    Thes had been an interesting thread about Duilio on Kartonwork.pl, unfortunately, it will not go on anyway.

    Go to http://www.kartonwork.pl/forum/search.php

    then enter "Duilio", up.

    Click onto "Szukai" and wait until results appear. Choose the one just before the last, with Wujek Andrzej. You will find a 13 pages report about Duilio papermodel, and some close-up photos of a model displayed in what I suppose to be an Italian museum.
  10. Renaud

    Renaud Member

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    Ting Yuen and Duilio

    Thes had been an interesting thread about Duilio on Kartonwork.pl, unfortunately, it will not go on anyway.

    Go to http://www.kartonwork.pl/forum/search.php

    then enter "Duilio", up.

    Click onto "Szukai" and wait until results appear. Choose the one just before the last, with Wujek Andrzej. You will find a 13 pages report about Duilio papermodel, and some close-up photos of a model displayed in what I suppose to be an Italian museum.
  11. Jim Krauzlis

    Jim Krauzlis Active Member

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    Hi, Brad! :D

    An interesting question you raised about using parts from another model...and it could be a thread in itself...I've seen threads go on for days on copyright issues, and I hope your question doesn't end up with a hijacking of this fine build thread.

    My two cents worth: since you bought the model, I don't see what problem could arise with you doing with it what you want, as long as you don't copy and sell it to someone else. As long as you don't violate the copyright of the designer/publisher, you should be able to use the parts you want on another model. I could be wrong, but I doubt your intended use on this build is a copyright infringement, at least not one I'm aware of. For instance, what if you scanned the model and built it from the scanned pages, that wouldn't violate any copyright, would it? So, if you choose to copy and use parts on another build, why should that be any different? You're still limiting your copy use on your own work, not giving or selling it to another, so you limited license from the purchase should allow you to copy and use the copy for your own use as you see fit.

    I would like to know more about the permission you mention from the designer for altering a model you bought for your own use. That doesn't sound right to me. I imagine you need to get permission to unlock a digital file you bought if you want to alter the graphic file, but that is where the designer has sold you an item which they have intentionally limited your ability to alter. I figure this is to prevent someone from altering the model templates and then trying to pass them off as their own work...but if you printed out parts and then used those parts on your other build, why is that a problem, I wonder?

    If someone really knows it to be a violation of some interpretation of the copyright laws, I would like to know more about that.

    Hope to see more on this build when you can!

    Cheers!

    Jim
  12. Jim Krauzlis

    Jim Krauzlis Active Member

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    Hi, Brad! :D

    An interesting question you raised about using parts from another model...and it could be a thread in itself...I've seen threads go on for days on copyright issues, and I hope your question doesn't end up with a hijacking of this fine build thread.

    My two cents worth: since you bought the model, I don't see what problem could arise with you doing with it what you want, as long as you don't copy and sell it to someone else. As long as you don't violate the copyright of the designer/publisher, you should be able to use the parts you want on another model. I could be wrong, but I doubt your intended use on this build is a copyright infringement, at least not one I'm aware of. For instance, what if you scanned the model and built it from the scanned pages, that wouldn't violate any copyright, would it? So, if you choose to copy and use parts on another build, why should that be any different? You're still limiting your copy use on your own work, not giving or selling it to another, so you limited license from the purchase should allow you to copy and use the copy for your own use as you see fit.

    I would like to know more about the permission you mention from the designer for altering a model you bought for your own use. That doesn't sound right to me. I imagine you need to get permission to unlock a digital file you bought if you want to alter the graphic file, but that is where the designer has sold you an item which they have intentionally limited your ability to alter. I figure this is to prevent someone from altering the model templates and then trying to pass them off as their own work...but if you printed out parts and then used those parts on your other build, why is that a problem, I wonder?

    If someone really knows it to be a violation of some interpretation of the copyright laws, I would like to know more about that.

    Hope to see more on this build when you can!

    Cheers!

    Jim
  13. bholderman

    bholderman Member

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    Jim,

    I'll have to find out where I read that here. But, I'm sure someone mentioned needing a designers permission. Perhaps it was in a context of using a design as a base for designing something further, I can't recall as accurately as I should.

    And unfortunately, I didn't get anything done today. History channel had another fine documentary on Indianapolis, a very good one with some heartbreaking stories in it, so my only time today, I got wrapped in that.

    But Duilio, is a massive build, I can tel by looking at the pages,

    and pages,

    and pages. Beyond my skill for a decent build right now, but that's what I am hoping to get out of Ting Yuen in addition to a good history lesson. I have a bit of a startegy to building my skill. First, the Dreadnought which is almost done, gave me a good idea of what to expect, what I did wrong and what I would like to do, in addition to developing an eye for using historical photos. I've looked at photos recently and realize that I could have done something differently.

    Second, Ting Yuen, offers the chance to develope some scratch building skills. Third, a new model available at Hobby Factory, the Turret ship Huascar, I'm very interested in, a chance to hone skills. Then the Duilio.

    As Roman and other designers frequent here (even though I haven't heard from him in awhile), I don't want to post a crappy build of any of their designs. But, I think paper models and the way they build has actually influenced my interest in the pre-Dreadnought period (I'm not sure how though, but I do think its responsible), specifically the Theodore Roosevelt's Great White Fleet. If thats any indication, I'm dying do do Roman's Oregon, but its a subject matter I would only want to do, if I knew I could do a job even close to Murban's.

    I'm starting to wander, I didn't get any building today, tomorrow I'm at the Star. That's another source of frustration, I see you guys building at such an even pace, but for me economics and family give me the opportunity for spurts only. Oh well, its fun.

    Cheers,
    Brad

    Cheers,
    Brad
  14. bholderman

    bholderman Member

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    Jim,

    I'll have to find out where I read that here. But, I'm sure someone mentioned needing a designers permission. Perhaps it was in a context of using a design as a base for designing something further, I can't recall as accurately as I should.

    And unfortunately, I didn't get anything done today. History channel had another fine documentary on Indianapolis, a very good one with some heartbreaking stories in it, so my only time today, I got wrapped in that.

    But Duilio, is a massive build, I can tel by looking at the pages,

    and pages,

    and pages. Beyond my skill for a decent build right now, but that's what I am hoping to get out of Ting Yuen in addition to a good history lesson. I have a bit of a startegy to building my skill. First, the Dreadnought which is almost done, gave me a good idea of what to expect, what I did wrong and what I would like to do, in addition to developing an eye for using historical photos. I've looked at photos recently and realize that I could have done something differently.

    Second, Ting Yuen, offers the chance to develope some scratch building skills. Third, a new model available at Hobby Factory, the Turret ship Huascar, I'm very interested in, a chance to hone skills. Then the Duilio.

    As Roman and other designers frequent here (even though I haven't heard from him in awhile), I don't want to post a crappy build of any of their designs. But, I think paper models and the way they build has actually influenced my interest in the pre-Dreadnought period (I'm not sure how though, but I do think its responsible), specifically the Theodore Roosevelt's Great White Fleet. If thats any indication, I'm dying do do Roman's Oregon, but its a subject matter I would only want to do, if I knew I could do a job even close to Murban's.

    I'm starting to wander, I didn't get any building today, tomorrow I'm at the Star. That's another source of frustration, I see you guys building at such an even pace, but for me economics and family give me the opportunity for spurts only. Oh well, its fun.

    Cheers,
    Brad

    Cheers,
    Brad
  15. raiwong

    raiwong Member

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    Brad,

    I can't wait to see your design for the Ting-yuen completed. The real Ting-yuen itself was a surprise to me. Although Chinese lost to the Japs during the Sino-Japanese war, the Ting-yuen was a remarkable work of engineering. If I have not mistaken, the Germans were involved with the design of the Ting-Yuen. This is not to offend any Chinese people, but, I always thought that the Chinese during the Qing Dynasty period were very backward and therefore, it was not possible for them to have the Ting-yuen in their navy.

    About designer's permission, do you mean a paper model designer must ask the original owner of the real thing for permission first before designing? Whatever, I'll doubly check on this as I guess no designer wants his or her work to be hampered due to some regulations. As for I know, it is not neccesary to ask for permission unless you are copying another person's paper model design especially for commercial purposes. Also, the paper model is not the real thing as it is only a representation of it. I understand that some Airlines encourage people to design paper models of their Airlines and promote them in order they (the Airlines) can indirectly market to a larger audience and get more people to fly with them.
  16. raiwong

    raiwong Member

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    Brad,

    I can't wait to see your design for the Ting-yuen completed. The real Ting-yuen itself was a surprise to me. Although Chinese lost to the Japs during the Sino-Japanese war, the Ting-yuen was a remarkable work of engineering. If I have not mistaken, the Germans were involved with the design of the Ting-Yuen. This is not to offend any Chinese people, but, I always thought that the Chinese during the Qing Dynasty period were very backward and therefore, it was not possible for them to have the Ting-yuen in their navy.

    About designer's permission, do you mean a paper model designer must ask the original owner of the real thing for permission first before designing? Whatever, I'll doubly check on this as I guess no designer wants his or her work to be hampered due to some regulations. As for I know, it is not neccesary to ask for permission unless you are copying another person's paper model design especially for commercial purposes. Also, the paper model is not the real thing as it is only a representation of it. I understand that some Airlines encourage people to design paper models of their Airlines and promote them in order they (the Airlines) can indirectly market to a larger audience and get more people to fly with them.
  17. charliec

    charliec Active Member

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    Actually it's correct that models of current or recent subjects do require permission from the original builders - it's a fairly complex issue (what issue
    involving lawyers isn't). I won't get into this because of the Cardmodels policy on copyright discussions.

    There was a recent thread in the Armoured section of the forums about embossing rivets which might be of use for the dragons on the Ting-Yuen. As far as I can tell from period images the dragons were carvings rather than bas relief which might be hard to do by embossing.

    Regards,

    Charlie
  18. charliec

    charliec Active Member

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    Actually it's correct that models of current or recent subjects do require permission from the original builders - it's a fairly complex issue (what issue
    involving lawyers isn't). I won't get into this because of the Cardmodels policy on copyright discussions.

    There was a recent thread in the Armoured section of the forums about embossing rivets which might be of use for the dragons on the Ting-Yuen. As far as I can tell from period images the dragons were carvings rather than bas relief which might be hard to do by embossing.

    Regards,

    Charlie
  19. Jim Krauzlis

    Jim Krauzlis Active Member

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    Hi, Charlie! :D

    I hope my reply didn't violate that copyright discussion policy...I must have had momentary idiocy to forget that...sorry! :roll:

    Jim
  20. Jim Krauzlis

    Jim Krauzlis Active Member

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    Hi, Charlie! :D

    I hope my reply didn't violate that copyright discussion policy...I must have had momentary idiocy to forget that...sorry! :roll:

    Jim