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Discussion in 'Armory & Military' started by Fishcarver, Mar 20, 2009.
WW2 is now ancient history. Why keep recycling WW2 stuff? How about soime modern EEurope Kits?
I keep asking the same question. I'm getting sick of seeing the same kit released by every manufacturer out there. They are all the same... Usually Me109's, Mustangs and so on. Someone does one with movable flaps, another makes a more detailed cockpit.
The hobby seems to gravitate to the 37'-45' era. After a while you can become desensitized to it. I've watched enough hours of video about various battles, technology and personalities from that era that walked away from it for almost a year refusing to look at any more.
Anyhow... We have a 'finite' amount of equipment from that period and we have modern stuff and references out the wazoo to give us countless projects. I'd like to see some Engineering Vehicles, Armored Cars and Personnel Transports.
I think the focus of AFV models is even narrower than just WW2.
There are very few models of French vehicles, only a handful of British, Japanese and Italian vehicles and the US, which produced more AFVs than any other country in WW2, is poorly served by model designers.
Aside from this there are lots of subjects from both before and after WW2 which would be interesting models.
I'd disagree that WWII is "ancient" history. It remains the most important war of the 20th century (IMO)
From a modeling standpoint, I think subjects that are not everyday items are more sought after. Most of us can personally see much modern military equipment at various shows, so they are less attractive as modeling subjects.
Add to that the view that WWII was the last, generally perceived, "just" war - virtually good against evil. That makes those models more attractive.
The years have dulled the reality of the war so it is certainly "romantacised".
It SEEMS much modern armor is somewhat void of "diverse personality" (MO). Take a look at the Abrams, Leopard I & II, LeClerc, Type-90 Japanese MBT, Challenger II - they're all so similar. Yes, these are just MBTs. There are some others I'd like to see fine models of, especially the Bradley.
More to the point is charliec's comment about the narrowness of even WW II models. However, I've always felt there was greater representation of European items because, well, paper modeling is much more pervasive in Europe.
There is a lot of duplication of the common vehicles. But most every publisher brings something different to the table.
Would like to see some more modern types though.
Love the Leopard I. Always thinking of hunting up and purchasing the GPM 1:16.
If it's true that modelers are especially drawn to WWII because of the "good vs evil" mystique, why are they - by a wide margin - interested in the evil side?
Subjects like Bismarck, Me109, Tiger tank, etc are far more popular than subjects like Richelieu, Mustang, Crusader. That seems like an odd result if modelers are attracted by the moral dimension of the war.
1) I think you answer your own question - the word "mystique" hits the nail on the head.
There is still an air of "magic" over the Nazi rise and spread of war (IMO just the "ostrich effect" of the world at the time). People are drawn to mysterious things.
2) Paper modeling is huge in Europe, where most of the print publishers are, so I am not surprised that the majority of models from that are of the leading Axis power.
Much has been said about the myriad of armour Germany produced and how spectacular it was, so that would draw people. The fact is Germany produced some great armour ideas, but rushed design and their "methods" of manufacture meant frequent failure in the field (and not necessarily on the battlefield).
3) Personally, i'd love to see some fine 1:16 models of the Sherman, M3A1, Priest, Cromwell, Char B-1, LVT, M8, Sexton, the list could go on and on
Private designers have tried to make up for that but usually at a reduced detail level and quality level! There are exceptions! The korean war is not well represented either. Only one model of an F-86 that i am aware of and it includes a Mig 15 with it and both are of medicocre quality. Lots of Vietnam era stuff, which does provide some cold war stuff. Theres a lot out there, more than most would believe, but very little of, lets say modern remakes of east european Maly stuff! I also agree that there should be more 1/16 scale items, especially with a recent upsurge in 1/16 & 1/18 scale figure collecting.
I do get tired of seeing the latest "Tiger" or "Panther" whilst Japanese and British and Italian tanks are almost ignored.
In defence of the designers, they do need to make models that will sell - Shermans, Tigers and Me109's always sell!
And as a would be private designer I must confess that I would love to design my own Tiger.
As modellers we need to support the manufactures that do try different ranges of models - there is a 1:25 Scale B1 Bis available from papermodeling.net Not sure how good it is as I've not seen a review.
One of the reasons I started to design my own models is that there is not just a gap in the market but a grand canyon.
I just wish that more manufactures would throw in a rarity.
The Orel Char B1 bis was reviewed recently on papermodelers.com - it's apparently a fairly simple model e.g. no suspension modelling.
I'm a bit surprised that others feel the same way I do about the range of AFV model subjects.
I should say that one Polish publisher doesn't just follow the crowd. WAK has published some interesting vehicle models recently which go some way to addressing the narrowness of other publishers' catalogues.
I think the main problem is - as mentioned - that e new model must sell. And there is to less interest for after WWII vehicles. At present, there is no problem to get any informations about any Warsaw Pact vehicle ever used, but they have been either produced in the past by Modelarz or Kranich for the "older" modelers, so the market is "done", or the vehicles are not the "runners" for most modelers.
Many of the private constructors have also problems with the shape of the tanks from this age...most tank turrets look like round sucked toffees...(T-54, T-62, M-48, M-60, Leopard 1,....)
I am preparing a little series of russian, polish and czech APC´s from the 50´s to 70´s (BTR-50/60/70, OT-62/63, MT-LB,...), but i don´t know, if i shall publish them, for 20 models, selled in 3 years, there is no relationship between the done work and the earned money. (oh yes, 10 Dollars every year earned with the models....rofl...)And as private constructor, the only way is to work with download models, anything else is out of reach....
Just my 2 cents.....
Gents: The most important war of the 20th Century is, in fact, the one that didn't happen (or has not happened yet).
Truth is, a lot of the X-Warsaw Pact material has gone to unstable 3rd World Countries, so none of it is dead.
Time to give up the past and look forward.
Yes! right after my first post to this thread, I found another thread announcing WAKs M3A1. Very excited. I'll scan and scale up ti 1:16. I have the Flymodel Stuart but feel the WAK with be higher quality.
Keep in mind it's now the 21st century
Thanks, Joe. Just reset the clock.....
Never give up or forget the past. It is destined to repeat itself and all must remain aware and vigilant.
Who could believe that what happened in Germany is today forming in countries you couldn't have imagined going down those paths.
You ARE a private designer. Quality not quantity is the key. Please do not move to a Tiger. I am tapping my toes over your line of quality, scalable, vector based WWI subjects.
I am very anxious for the MkIV Male and the Whippet.
The Hercules (and other A7Vs) are beautiful. Please continue!
Sorry for the row of posts. I don't know how to do multiple quotes.
I read all the post and no one individual is wrong in their take about why or what for. I will however point out this fact, no War has advanced the World like the last World War did, technology went from the post to modern in a short amount of time, the whole World was involved in some way, if not fighting for their existence. Number of lives lost is still today being debated. Most of what you enjoy and take for granted came from the developments from this war. Oh yea, cold war equipment for the most part was newer/up-dates of what came out of this war. And last of all, there has not been another generation like the one that stepped forward to fight against what was in their eyes considered evil. By today's standards, by the time the powers that lead figure what is right or wrong, you might be goose stepping. So build as you like what is available, and if you can not find it, scratch build your own, how about that novel idea.announce1
First, I want to say how much I am enjoying this thread!
Second, fine observations by all participants.
Third, I want to support an earlier comment about so much German armour being very angular in construction and therefore easier to adapt to paper model design and construction.
I'll go out on a limb here and say that the average paper modeler has much difficulty forming compound curves and glueing them cleanly. This is certainly true for myself.
Granted, practice is what increases your skills. On the other hand, it seems every new skill I try is not applicable to the next model I build - it requires NEW learning .
Ah, the quest for skills!
For those looking for different-than-usual armour to build, /I do recommend Paperpanzers WWI German A7Vs.
They are 1:72 and detailed appropriately for the scale, but are vector so they scale up beautifully and then you can detail to your level of skill and contentment.
I had a little trouble with the links but emailing him directly took care of everything quickly and courteously!
The only other choices for this is the older Modelik and the new computer drawn version of it from FlyModel.
There is another set of 1:72 A7Vs available out there but they are only 200 dpi raster graphics and scaling up gives horrible results.
The whole thing is ... what has been done has been done again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again...
I think we all agree on that. However, the common models are not the only ones available. There are some more obscure WWII vehicles available.
I want my armour in 1:16, period. But I aint holdin' my breath.
As to post WWII, there is little, and until it's in demand, there will not be, much available.
"Build it, and they will come." was a nice, ethereal catch phrase for a movie, but ultimately, without substance.
"Build what they are asking for, and they will buy." is reality.
It's not a huge selection, but I counted about 25 post WWII armour subjects at the Paper Model Store.
Another 2 over at Hobby Factory.
ThaiPaperWork offers a range of armour, jets, and planes.
Julescrafter offers a nice line (13 models) of modern armour. They are not super detailed but seen to make a very nice collection. http://julescrafter.com