Need some info re: correct engine for logging line

[Otony]

Hello again,

I am beginning the hunter/gatherer stage of my logging layout , and have a few questions for the group.

I bought a 2 truck Rivarossi Heisler as my main engine, but am interested in another engine. This would represent a small coal supply train, hauling supplies to the yard of the logging line. My era will be immediately post-WWI (taking advantage of the early 1920's Jordan vehicles), no later than 1925.

So, the question is, what would work? I am supposing a USRA 0-6-0 (thinking of the P2K) would be all right, but I wondered if it is "early" enough? Would there be something more appropriate? How much trouble to bash a USRA 0-6-0 to an earlier style?

I understand that 0-6-0's were considered too "stiff" to accomodate rough shortlines, but this engine isn't meant to traverse the actual logging line (although it will to thrill the kids). This would merely feed the Heisler from more level lines in the flats. If I could find a decent 2-6-0, that would likely be a better bet, but those seem few and far between.

Any suggestions, gentlemen?

Otony

 

[nachoman]

how about a 0-6-0T? There are plenty of models of various types of those, but I think the spectrum one looks cool.

kevin

 

[cidchase]

http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/001/797azjhr.asp

 

[sumpter250]

Whatever you choose, it would also be the train that takes the logs to mill, or the cut lumber to market. It wouldn't be limited to just coal in, and empties out.
Even a 4-6-0, or early 2-8-0 would work.

 

[60103]

The USRA designs came out of WW1, so they would be in your time frame. Would depend on what the RR is that you're connecting to. If it's a main line job, the USRA 0-6-0 would be fine. A small railroad might be making do with something well used -- the locos in Buster Keaton's film The General were from just such a road.
Any small-drivered small loco would probably be fine.

 

[Otony]

60103: Well put, and the USRA is already correct. If I were to use a low tender, and maybe "bash" it a bit, I imagine it would do fine.

sumpter250: Good point! I need to make sure that I have some extra log cars for the coal train. Given the quality of the P2K 0-6-0 (I did a lot of research on it last night!), I think I will just stay with it. If I opt for something else like a 2-8-0, etc, I will be back here asking for more info........

cidchase" I found that site last night, but wanted some "encouragement". Thank you!

nachoman: I, too, think the Bachmann 0-6-0T is very cool (as well as the same from Mantua Classics). I think these may be a bit too late for my period , however.

And to one and all, again, I say, THANK YOU!

Otony

 

[neilmunck]

How about the small drivered vaersion of the Bachman 4-6-0? It is a model of a Baldwin form the 1890's or thereabouts that has been shopped and upgradred with electric lighting, walcherts valve gear and the like. It is also more of a 'road' engine, a jack of all trades, than the P2k 0-6- which was designed as a switcher.

I also think you are right in that the P2k engine is too new. Even in 1925 it would only be 7 or so years old and a logging line would probably have bought something older, second hand.

Neil

 

[wjstix]

Yes !! I was just going to suggest the Spectrum 4-6-0. Most logging operations were not very well funded, and used whatever they could get cheap. I've seen pictures from the '20's of 4-4-0's, 2-6-0's etc. being used, some clearly 30-40+ years old. As steel cars came in (both freight and passenger) the mainline roads sold off or scrapped their smaller engines for bigger ones, so any small-medium engine from a local large RR would probably work.

BTW at one time many MN logging lines used Forney tank engines (0-4-4T's I think) that they bought from New York City - they had been used on the elevated lines out east until they electrified, and were available cheap and could take a really tight streetcar type curve.

 

[Tileguy]

Logging,ahhhhhhh where to begin.
Heislers.They really had trouble getting off the ground.serious design flaws with thier first model made buyers gunshy.later models proved quite worthy.
Shays, what can I say Logging and Shays are like Bread and Butter.
Climax's, you just gotta love em. 2-6-0 and 2-8-0's probobly hauled more logs,strike that, more of everything in that time Era than any other engine. (there were alot of them around,a whole lot of them!!!Contrary to popular belief, most logging roads tried to keep grades down.Its when this was impossible that the mountain goat of the woods took to the tracks.Northern Minnesota saw a variety of locomotives but No locomotive was more prolific than the Consolidated 2-8-0.
Mason Bogies are really cool engines and certainly worth looking into.

My On30 line will use a Bachmann Climax(custom detailed with DCC and hopefully a sound chip)for the heavy grade work and a BLI C-16 2-8-0w DCC and Sound for all mainline and transfer work.
They are all great in thier own way, Pick one thats a good runner(check reviews and ask around about specific models)affordable and that you really like.You are going to have this engine for a very long while

 

[hd8091]

This web site at the University of Washington should be of some help.
http://content.lib.washington.edu/clarkkinseyweb/index.html

 

[silver]

The Grasse River RR of the Emporium Lumber Co. in upstate NY had an engine close to identicle (if you changed the domes) to the Bachmann Spectrum HO 0-6-0T engine in the 20's. They added a trailing truck to make an 0-6-2T. I am hoping to model this one in O (toy I know. What can I say sorry I like the size) using a newer Lionel engine that is a copy of the same.

 

[Gil Finn]

The C&O used 4-8-2s.
Maybe a Berkshire and repaint it or weather it for your line. I dont know what is available in HO but I am an O ga. guy and I am doing the same.

I have a K line 2 truck shay, I am buiding a loader and skidder and have bought a Berkshire for main line coal operations.

I will make some d changes on it at some point.

I kit bashe a 040 lionel starter set engine into a tank engine for yard use and am looking for something to make into an engine that runs on a charhge of steam from an out side source, like old chemical companys once used. I dont know what they are called but Carbide and Carbom used them in thier So, Chas.W Va plant untill the fifties. With no combustion, they didn't cause fires or expolosions.

 

[silver]

To make a fireless engine I would think about starting with that new lionel 0-6-0 and doing some surgery on the boiler. The detail is great for the price I am very happy with mine. And from the few compressed air or fireless steam engines I've seen they often have and enlarged boiler with a rounded front like an air tank. They also were tank engines because they didn't need to lug all that extra weight around so one end of the engine would be easy.

I would like to know more about how they "recharged" these. Neat project.

 

[TrainClown]

A Climax is my fave. Especially an old one that's been to the black smith's shop a few times. I love them cobled engines.

TrainClown

 

[Gil Finn]

Silver, here at Carbide they had a steam plant and filled it up with a hose from a stand pipe.

These little engines were 0 4 0s.

 

[Gil Finn]

Not for the mail line but rather the mountain log roads..

 

[silver]

Very nice Gil. I would love to be able to afford one of those. Oh well.

At the moment I am debating making the switch over to 0n30 from tinplate O. The Bachmann models especially the Climax look great for the price. Also the upcoming railtruck would be a fun kitbash project to make a similar model on the Grasse River RR that I am obcessing over these days. My major problem is the gauge. The Grasse Rrr was standard gauge and these models are narrow but the price and detail are so very tempting. So I have several models in three rail standard O and one combine in On30 and a thin wallet that is tempeted by the idea of three Climaxes for the price of one Shay.

I feel that I am talking/dealing with the same people in several forums at once.

 

[Gil Finn]

Well you may be, I seem to be forum hopping here as I explore this site.Sorry for the confusion.


The shays are not cheap but mine is a K Line and I put a deposit on it the week it was announced, I paid a bit each month for a year and a half until it finally came out.

I was lucky as my price was locked in at $575 and they were $800 when released with the several upgrades.

 

[silver]

Well of all of the three rail shays out there apparently this one will take the tightest curves (and the best price). I read one reveiw say it could make a standard O 31 inch radius. K-line seems to have made the right choice by making a somewhat standard sized "catalog" Shay instead of the limited use models that Lionel made with the four trucks and MTH's Western MD #6 monster Shay. These are difficult to justify because they are the exception rather than the rule. I guess they first came out when modelers were in an SUV/Big Boy/Challenger mentality. Now it seems that has cooled abit and there is more interest in smaller and older models. Recently the K-line Plymouth and Lionel's 0-6-0T are my favorite models out there for size, price, and detail they are hard to beat. I am interested in the K-line Porter but have heard grumblings of it being oversized so I am waiting to see it with my own eyes.

 

[Jim Krause]

Silver: The fireless locomotives, as Gil said " were pressurized by a stationary boiler" at a mill or other facility with a steam plant. Our local museum here in Polson,MT has a Porter " fireless loco" which the owner is setting up to operate on compressed air. I would think thats going to take one heck of a compressor.