Need 2 ID's, Old Mantuas or Bashing ?

TedTrain

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Jan 17, 2004
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Hi all again!
These 2 are from the same tag sale. One Santa Fe , El Capitan. It has Cardboard sides, wood bottom. The other is Canadian National, it is Metal with wood bottom. Any ideas?
Many thanks, Ted

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wjstix

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Nov 18, 2004
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They could both be Mantua. The couplers certainly are, but then before Kadees came along, Mantua couplers probably were the most popular HO couplers so many cars from the forties-fifties would have them.
 

pjb

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Dec 21, 2000
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Look at the Trucks and Possibly on diecast frames

:thumb:
The comments made are correct as far as they go, but
are not definitive. This is for several reasons, not the
least of which is that at one time many kit makers
employed these materials. You may never get a
definitive fix on the makers, without becoming an
expert yourself on old car kits.
Basically, determining
who made the trucks on them may prove most
useful, for most 'HO' car kits came with trucks then.
By the same token, over a half century or so trucks
get changed on cars running on layouts.That also
brings up the matter of cars
made from components of kits that were also sold
separately by kit makers. The ladders and grabs
on Athearn kits are individually applied by the kit builder
and are as fine as any made today. Varney's were
not as fine, and he switched to plastic molded
ladders prior to dropping stamped metal bodies.
Some of their competitors used staples with paper
sides and wooden ones that were too large for these
details.
The CNR boxcar, if it has a side body
silk screened by the maker, is going to be the easier
of the cars to run down, because Santa Fe reefer kits
were "a dime a dozen", as they say. If the boxcar is
an all zamac die cast unit, or used stamped steel or
brass elements that is a major discriminant.
Printed paper sided cars with lead cast ends were a
Red Ball technique, and they made an enormous
number of low cost kits using those components
glued to a wooden body. Their trucks were cast
lead, unsprung and had brass wheels. These trucks
are still sold today, after passing through several
different manufacturers hands over the last half
century since they were produced in over twenty
different styles.
Stamped metal cars were made by Varney
and Athearn prior to their shift to plastic in the
mid1950s. Athearn's metal stamped, predecorated
cars were afterwards produced, using their tooling,
by Menzies - and then in the 1980s and into the 90s by Bowser.
The trucks shifted to being sprung somewhere
in that period, and Athearn and Varney went to
nylon or combination metal units prior to dropping
metal stampings. Mantua used brass, but applied
molded paper material sides for detail purposes,
into the 1950s. They then switched to cast/moled
zamac and then plastic. MDC went from all zamac,
to plastic, and then reintroduced zamac cars as higher
cost kits for a period in the 1960s,'70s,'80s. Most
of the latter were open cars or passenger cars.

Some cast frame elements have makers names, but
almost all have part numbers. This is why avid
collectors also collect makers catalogs, so they can
cross reference part numbers to trace makers.

At the time in question, the MODEL RAILROAD
EQUIPMENT COMPANY catalog , from their store
on W. 43 St in NYC, was the definitive publication.
WALTHERS' catalog was a list of their manufactured
products. By the way, they are also another possible
maker of your reefer. The MRE catalog, especially
the post 1951 catalogs that were issued in an 'HO'
gauge only version, describes the materials used
in the kits and has many illustrations, so it is the best
source of information. America's Hobby Center on
W. 22 St, and E&H hobbies in Philly have less
useful catatlogs, because they have less product
detail, that do list information as to whether you
got trucks and couplers with a kit, and who was
selling what kind of trucks and the like. So if you see
one of them, pick it up.
I hope this helps.
Good-Luck, PJB