Methods used by card model designers of the past.

Discussion in 'Gallery & Designs' started by raiwong, Aug 25, 2005.

  1. raiwong

    raiwong Member

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    What method did the card model designers during the second world war (e.g. http://www.geocities.com/rigbypapermodels/) use? I doubt they have Peparkura, Rhino 3D, and other modern softwares to help them with their work.
  2. raiwong

    raiwong Member

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    What method did the card model designers during the second world war (e.g. http://www.geocities.com/rigbypapermodels/) use? I doubt they have Peparkura, Rhino 3D, and other modern softwares to help them with their work.
  3. 46rob

    46rob Member

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    I don't use any modern software like Rhino or any other developmental software to develop my models. I did aircraft sheet metal work for many years and merely scaled down the process. It relies heavily on being able to do sheet metal layout..especially the ability to calculate and layout cones, superimpose one cone on another and combine the two into one piece..a bit of plane and spherical geometry and some basic drafting techniques. I find the most efective tool in my arsenal is a good programmable graphing calculator.- to do repetitious math. Once I have my model drawn, I scan it into the computer and using Photoshop Elements, redraw and color it. Before computers, the artist whould have drawn in the detail by hand, and colored the original artwork with suitable paints.
  4. 46rob

    46rob Member

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    I don't use any modern software like Rhino or any other developmental software to develop my models. I did aircraft sheet metal work for many years and merely scaled down the process. It relies heavily on being able to do sheet metal layout..especially the ability to calculate and layout cones, superimpose one cone on another and combine the two into one piece..a bit of plane and spherical geometry and some basic drafting techniques. I find the most efective tool in my arsenal is a good programmable graphing calculator.- to do repetitious math. Once I have my model drawn, I scan it into the computer and using Photoshop Elements, redraw and color it. Before computers, the artist whould have drawn in the detail by hand, and colored the original artwork with suitable paints.
  5. Swinger

    Swinger Member

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    Or 10 years ago. ;-)
  6. Swinger

    Swinger Member

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    Or 10 years ago. ;-)
  7. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

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    Well Rob,

    I would have liked to have known some of your equations and techniques. I started my corsair model over a year ago and I am still working on some basic fit issues cause my method is to get the piece mostly right by guessework then build it refine it build refine until I get it right (note my signature :? ) and then it will probably only work in the scale I designed it in or smaller.

    Even though I now have rhino to do the dirty work I would be grateful to find out some of your methods. :D
  8. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

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    Well Rob,

    I would have liked to have known some of your equations and techniques. I started my corsair model over a year ago and I am still working on some basic fit issues cause my method is to get the piece mostly right by guessework then build it refine it build refine until I get it right (note my signature :? ) and then it will probably only work in the scale I designed it in or smaller.

    Even though I now have rhino to do the dirty work I would be grateful to find out some of your methods. :D
  9. 46rob

    46rob Member

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    In the works--in collaboration with Chip Fyn's Fiddlers Green--is a set of basic instructions on how to develop your own model. This is still in the concept stage. Another is planned to help those who'd like to re-color--but really don't know where to start. I've got some other things to attend to before these projects become a reality and get into the writing stage.
  10. 46rob

    46rob Member

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    In the works--in collaboration with Chip Fyn's Fiddlers Green--is a set of basic instructions on how to develop your own model. This is still in the concept stage. Another is planned to help those who'd like to re-color--but really don't know where to start. I've got some other things to attend to before these projects become a reality and get into the writing stage.
  11. Maurice

    Maurice Member

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    Raiwong

    Don't know if you've seen the thread but this is one way it was done in the former DDR before the Wall came down
    http://www.kartonbau.de/thread.php?...bb&threadview=0&hilight=&hilightuser=0&page=1
    remember to take a copy of alta vista in your back pocket.
    Watch for occassional appearances by a happy blue bear.
    Barry is already munching popcorn in the front row of the stalls.

    Rob

    Not sure I would know which end of a good programmable graphing calculator is which. I prefer to avoid repetitious math and go for the simple graphical solutions. I get put off by having to multiply one number by another let alone by occasionally having to divide by a third. That's about all that's needed in a proper 2D CAD programme. Algebra and trig - utterly uneccessary - and I wouldn't want any potential designer to think otherwise.

    Will

    Don't know how far you want to go with learning the ways of the ancients (like me) but I'm sure there is no harm in at least knowing enough to be aware of what must be happening inside the modern programs. With care it can even lead to discovering how to get curves out of the output from Pepakura.
    At one time there was a subject called Technical Drawing with a topic known as Development Drawing.
    Still is of course but it's not so widely taught now because there's so much else to be learnt. Pity really, it's all been a very useful life skill for me.
    To date attempts by several people at explanation on paper modelling forums have not been well received. Deafening indifference or outpourings of unbelievable ignorance tend to lead to cessation of effort. (see note below)
    So the best way to go might be to purchase a copy of a text such as Technical Drawing by Frederick E. Giesecke and be selective in what you read.
    Note that the subject was mainly evolved in the 19th century to meet the needs of the Industrial Revolution so even early editions will cover things.
    Relatively recent editions available for purchase through Ebay from a chap called Len for USD 6.00 rather than USD 120.00 for the latest editions (which presumably are contaminated with references to CAD ). USD 3.50 for internal US postage.
    (That postage is nothing, it weighs over 4lbs and is USD 22.50 just for surface mail to the Southernmost perimeter of permanent human planetary habitation.)

    Cheers
    Maurice



    Note
    Citations for any percieved accusations and innuedo available on request but may cause embarassment.
  12. shrike

    shrike Guest

    i've found that with this subject (and with 1:1 aircraft design and construction) your best bet is to find the oldest books you can. One of my favourites is a 1941 printing of a technical drawing book. It doesn't assume that you have a mathematics degree - simple geometric developments for everything - but the drawings are marvelously vintage as well. This one uses an XP-24 as the example of a 3-view.
  13. Gefahren

    Gefahren Member

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    I would be interested in some of these aforementioned books. Any other titles I can look for besides the one already listed? Titles that you would suggest as opposed to any old technical drawing book (searching the internet does turn up a lot of garbage, doesn't it?) I keep finding myself trying to figure out geometric equations and such in my head while I'm working on something so I might as well try putting some more math in there to confuse me. [​IMG]
  14. shrike

    shrike Guest

    OK, the one I referred to is "A Manual of Engineering Drawing, for students and draftsmen" by Thomas E. French M.E., D.Sc Sixth edition copyright 1911,1918,1924,1935,1941.
    Chapter XXIII Aircraft Drawing is especially fun, with the XP24 three view and working drwgs of the going-round-and-in-and-out parts of a Wright Whirlwind.

    I picked it up at the local library's used book sale for a dollar (i also picked up a mint factory porsche 356 shop manual for a buck there too - always pays to look!!!) And really any drafting textbook will give you a good overview. Any of them before 1985 or so won't even mention CAD either.