Mantua Pacific is ill.

Discussion in 'HO Scale Model Trains' started by czwij, Feb 13, 2007.

  1. czwij

    czwij New Member

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    Hello one and all,

    I would like to ask if anyone has any experience in remotoring an old Mantua Pacific.
    I have remotored an old 2-8-4 from mantua with a helix humper motor many moons ago. its OK but i think there may be better methods (and cheaper, the danged thing cost me over 40 bucks 15 years ago!) and its not as good as the remotors i have done with MDC products using recommended NWSL gearing kits. I have various can motors, but no way of using the original gearing that came with the model, the drivers get in the way and the space is awful narrow for the canon brand motors that i use. I guess what im really looking for is a gear box of sorts and what gearing this high drivered machine should have. she's gotta go fast as she pulls eight MP heavyweights as a hotshot train, near 80 mph should be good...
    any suggestions?
    many thanx.
  2. pgandw

    pgandw Active Member

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    I would recommend contacting NWSL. I believe thay have some gear boxes that will fit. You will have to remove the drivers (and requarter them when you reinstall) to put the new worm gear on the axle. To select the amount of reduction, you will have to have an idea of the 12 volt RPM of your Canon motor.

    In re-motoring your Pacific, I would be cautious in choosing the new motor. It's a heavy locomotive with lots of traction. Some of the smaller can motors may not have enough torque to make use of all that traction - they will stall before the drivers will spin. As I'm sure you know any misalignments or binds in the drive will use some of the motor's torque before it gets to the drive wheels. The NWSL gearbox, especially the ball bearing models, will really help. It is not a good thing to release the magic smoke from a can motor!

    The other issue is the NWSL route is not likely to be much cheaper than a Helix Humper (which are still available), but will give better performance.

    just my thoughts, your choices
  3. czwij

    czwij New Member

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    thanks, looks as though the helix humper is the easiest and best bet. I can say that the one i installed previously is not all that exceptional (rather slow, but for freight just fine) and i had to fiddle with it to get the gear mesh right. I just hope that the speed will be acceptable, as mentioned the 80mph. the can motors that I use are very good slow (most important) but when needed capable of decent out put at speed (least important, except for this one machine)
  4. ocalicreek

    ocalicreek Member

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    www.yardbirdtrains.com

    And be sure to check out the accompaning Yahoo Group. Dan sells the helix humper units as well as a host of other detail parts for a variety of 'older' locos.
  5. Glen Haasdyk

    Glen Haasdyk Active Member

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    I've got an old Mantua pacific that will be going into the shop sometime. It'll be getting the helix humper as well as a number on detail parts to make it a bit more Canadian national. (hopefully)
  6. Ray Marinaccio

    Ray Marinaccio Active Member

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    I would also say the helix humper would be the easiest way to go.
    I have been doing it the hard way. (The cheaper route)

    Attached Files:

  7. czwij

    czwij New Member

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    Hey ray, thats sweet and exactly what i was looking for. as mentioned i put one HH in a 2-8-4 and i cant say that its that great. tops speed is only about 35-40mph at 12 v, which is fine for freight, but i fear that this is much too slow for a passenger hotshot like the pacific. that and it bwas a pain to get running properly (its an older model, the website has new seating for the moror whuich would probably be better than what i have). What kind of gearbox you have there? aside, i have so many can motors i cant justify not using them for every re-motor. i look forward to your reply. im not worried about burning them out as they have been used on old bowsers with decent results.
  8. czwij

    czwij New Member

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    also glenn, i would like to see the finished CN pacific as i am a DC - displaced canadian.
  9. Ray Marinaccio

    Ray Marinaccio Active Member

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    The gearboxes are both built from scratch using the original gears.
    Mantua did sell a retrofit drive kit. I can't remember the part number, I saw one on Ebay a few weeks ago.
    I have installed NWSL gearboxes in a few also. It isn't to hard but you get into pulling wheels and gears off the axle which can sometimes be a pain. Not the cheapest way to go either.
  10. Glen Haasdyk

    Glen Haasdyk Active Member

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    Well I haven't even started on the engine yet. I'm just working on the parts list for it. So far I want the helix humper, a vestibule cab and an elesco feedwater heater but I'm sure the list will grow as I look more into it.

    This is what it looks like now:
    [​IMG]
  11. czwij

    czwij New Member

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    wasnt tne CN pacific of the closed cab type? i know that precision used to make both plastic and brass closed cabs for this model, and they were (i think, or maybe Burlington) a CN prototype. in any case, thanks for all the info. the second shot or rays mantua has inspired me to make a similar setup. like the spring as a flecible coupling. beats neopren.
  12. Ray Marinaccio

    Ray Marinaccio Active Member

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    The spring coupling works out well. I saw it used in some N scale Life/Like locomotives.
    I used the bearings from an old Mantua motor in the gearbox.
    I found a set of Bowser pillow blocks used in their big boy, mountains and pacifics.
    I was thinking they may be able to be used on the Mantua/Tyco frame to hold the worm and shaft with some modification.
  13. czwij

    czwij New Member

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    way cool ray (is that term still used? ive been in europe for 9 years, so i dont know). i thot about this last nite before nodding off. i could use the old motor shaft and bearings, just need to fabricate those pillow blocks. ingenious on your part. many thanks!!!
  14. Glen Haasdyk

    Glen Haasdyk Active Member

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    The Canadian railroads had the vestibule (closed) cabs that's one of the items on my list for this loco. Precision is probably what I'll go with considering other closed cabs are two or three times it's price.
  15. Ray Marinaccio

    Ray Marinaccio Active Member

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    I just finished this one.
    Here's a few photos.
    The tender is bashed from a wrecked Tyco tender and an AHM tank car.

    Attached Files:

  16. ocalicreek

    ocalicreek Member

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    Ray - outstanding work! If you haven't been there yet, get over to the Yardbird Trains group and join - we'd be glad to learn from you, and you might find some more kindred spirits!

    http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/yardbirdtrains
  17. czwij

    czwij New Member

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    reminds me, are any of those old mellor products for mantua available? also, what do you think of the mantua cabs? arent they too small? always looked small to me. i used the cab off a mdc SP engine (harriman boiler) and it looks pretty good. nice machine, real nice ray. im saving these pics for reference.
  18. Ray Marinaccio

    Ray Marinaccio Active Member

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    I haven't been able to find any Mellor products. Would like to find some of the valve gear conversion kits and cabs.
    Yes the Mantua cabs do seem short to me. The MDC cab is a good idea.
  19. ocalicreek

    ocalicreek Member

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    You may find what you need at:

    www.yardbirdtrains.com

    NO, I'm not getting a kickback. I've just had very good communication with Dan, the owner, and have been very pleased with the products I ordered to work on my Mantua Shifter.