Learning about glue

Discussion in 'Tools of the Trade' started by hapes, Oct 20, 2006.

  1. hapes

    hapes New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2006
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    Building my first paper model (Jack Sparrow's Compass from Disney), and I started with some Elmer's 'Washable School Glue'. It seems to hold pretty well for now (long term, not so sure, I hope someone will have a comment on it).

    In an effort to get more precise than my fingers, I went to Michael's craft store and asked for a syringe glue applicator. They basically had no clue what I was talking about. They pointed me at a couple of different adhesives with pointy tips.

    I picked up 2 different glues: G-S hypo cement and UHU Craft Glue for cardboard and craft paper.

    The G-S hypo cement had a thin needle extension where you were to apply the glue. When I attempted to apply it to my model, it was pretty precise, but it kept coming out, even after I held it vertical, point up. I wiped a few times, stuck the pin of the cap back into the needle (so it wouldn't clog), and attached the pieces together. Once they were together, I put a paper towel on top (it was a hidden joint), two CD cases on top to apply pressure, moved on to cutting out the next piece. After the suggested 10 minutes, I pulled the pressure off, and discovered that only about 3/4s of my joints held. Wasn't happy with that. It smelled, and didn't hold very well on paper.

    I'm wary of opening the UHU cardboard and craft paper glue. It doesn't have an applicator tip, so I'll have to figure something out there, and though it says it can glue crepe paper, I don't want too much wrinkle out of it. Anyone used this stuff?
  2. hapes

    hapes New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2006
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    Building my first paper model (Jack Sparrow's Compass from Disney), and I started with some Elmer's 'Washable School Glue'. It seems to hold pretty well for now (long term, not so sure, I hope someone will have a comment on it).

    In an effort to get more precise than my fingers, I went to Michael's craft store and asked for a syringe glue applicator. They basically had no clue what I was talking about. They pointed me at a couple of different adhesives with pointy tips.

    I picked up 2 different glues: G-S hypo cement and UHU Craft Glue for cardboard and craft paper.

    The G-S hypo cement had a thin needle extension where you were to apply the glue. When I attempted to apply it to my model, it was pretty precise, but it kept coming out, even after I held it vertical, point up. I wiped a few times, stuck the pin of the cap back into the needle (so it wouldn't clog), and attached the pieces together. Once they were together, I put a paper towel on top (it was a hidden joint), two CD cases on top to apply pressure, moved on to cutting out the next piece. After the suggested 10 minutes, I pulled the pressure off, and discovered that only about 3/4s of my joints held. Wasn't happy with that. It smelled, and didn't hold very well on paper.

    I'm wary of opening the UHU cardboard and craft paper glue. It doesn't have an applicator tip, so I'll have to figure something out there, and though it says it can glue crepe paper, I don't want too much wrinkle out of it. Anyone used this stuff?
  3. 72BMWR75/5

    72BMWR75/5 Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2006
    Messages:
    376
    Likes Received:
    0
    I like tacky glue

    I think it's called Allene's. I use the guick drying tacky glue. It looks like Elmer's, but is thicker and dries faster. You can find it in Wal-Marts crafts section. The bottle has a tip. I use it straight out of the bottle for big stuff and put a little on a scrap of card stock and use a tooth pick to put it on little stuff. You don't need very much and it bonds fast.
  4. 72BMWR75/5

    72BMWR75/5 Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2006
    Messages:
    376
    Likes Received:
    0
    I like tacky glue

    I think it's called Allene's. I use the guick drying tacky glue. It looks like Elmer's, but is thicker and dries faster. You can find it in Wal-Marts crafts section. The bottle has a tip. I use it straight out of the bottle for big stuff and put a little on a scrap of card stock and use a tooth pick to put it on little stuff. You don't need very much and it bonds fast.
  5. jyduchene

    jyduchene Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    Welcome and great question.

    I will give it a go.. However I am far from expert however I am awake at this hour. I believe that in card model construction you will use several glues. To glue a laminant together, you know, the take the former in the booklet and glue it up to 1mm deal? I use Scotch brand 77 spray adhesive. I have had difficulty with other types of glue either being "too wet" and introducing warping (elmers comes to mind) or not sticking well enough and having parts delaminate.

    For a long time I used white glue (elmers and the harder to come by Willco) and applied it with a fine brush. This gave good control and allowed for precise placement of glue in smaller amounts. I kept the brush in a cup of water on a coffee heating pad and wiped it often with paper towel. I can tell you that going from tooth picks to this method improved the look of my model. I am a bit of a prefectionist and consder a build ruined if I smear a sheen of glue in a area that is noticed.
    Lately I have been trying Duco cement with some testors nozzels on them. The glue is easly had here in a hardware store. The nozzels were found by luck in a hobby store ( a rare sight now). so far I have been using the cement for very small parts and like it.
    I have super type glue on hand but use it only rarley to tack a line or piece of rigging or to stiffen a part that needs extra stability. I am clumsy with this stuff and generally make one step back for each two forward with this stuff. \
    I have a selection of syringes and glue despensers. I think of them for white glue and have managed to plug them up so they have been of limited use to me. I hope others will join in this is a sticky subject.

    Thanks for bringing it up. John
  6. jyduchene

    jyduchene Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    Welcome and great question.

    I will give it a go.. However I am far from expert however I am awake at this hour. I believe that in card model construction you will use several glues. To glue a laminant together, you know, the take the former in the booklet and glue it up to 1mm deal? I use Scotch brand 77 spray adhesive. I have had difficulty with other types of glue either being "too wet" and introducing warping (elmers comes to mind) or not sticking well enough and having parts delaminate.

    For a long time I used white glue (elmers and the harder to come by Willco) and applied it with a fine brush. This gave good control and allowed for precise placement of glue in smaller amounts. I kept the brush in a cup of water on a coffee heating pad and wiped it often with paper towel. I can tell you that going from tooth picks to this method improved the look of my model. I am a bit of a prefectionist and consder a build ruined if I smear a sheen of glue in a area that is noticed.
    Lately I have been trying Duco cement with some testors nozzels on them. The glue is easly had here in a hardware store. The nozzels were found by luck in a hobby store ( a rare sight now). so far I have been using the cement for very small parts and like it.
    I have super type glue on hand but use it only rarley to tack a line or piece of rigging or to stiffen a part that needs extra stability. I am clumsy with this stuff and generally make one step back for each two forward with this stuff. \
    I have a selection of syringes and glue despensers. I think of them for white glue and have managed to plug them up so they have been of limited use to me. I hope others will join in this is a sticky subject.

    Thanks for bringing it up. John
  7. Wily

    Wily Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    0
    Four glues that I use -

    Elmers Tacky Glue
    Hammerhead Contact Cement
    "Gel" super glue
    3M 77 spray glue
  8. Wily

    Wily Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    0
    Four glues that I use -

    Elmers Tacky Glue
    Hammerhead Contact Cement
    "Gel" super glue
    3M 77 spray glue
  9. Larry Marshall

    Larry Marshall Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    363
    Likes Received:
    0
    There's nothing wrong with using standard white glue but I'd recommend that you switch from the 'washable glue' to Elmers Glue-All. The washable glue has far too much water in it to be useful for precision gluing.

    Like others, however, if I use a white glue I use Aleene's Quick Dry Tacky Glue. This stuff comes in a gray bottle and gives you tight control over its application and it dries very quickly.

    As for application, I have a 'glue palette' which amounts to a stack of small notepaper (bought at a dollar store). I squirt some glue onto this and apply it with either toothpicks or spread it with strips of paper I've folded in half. These are cut from scraps.

    Cheers --- Larry
  10. Larry Marshall

    Larry Marshall Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    363
    Likes Received:
    0
    There's nothing wrong with using standard white glue but I'd recommend that you switch from the 'washable glue' to Elmers Glue-All. The washable glue has far too much water in it to be useful for precision gluing.

    Like others, however, if I use a white glue I use Aleene's Quick Dry Tacky Glue. This stuff comes in a gray bottle and gives you tight control over its application and it dries very quickly.

    As for application, I have a 'glue palette' which amounts to a stack of small notepaper (bought at a dollar store). I squirt some glue onto this and apply it with either toothpicks or spread it with strips of paper I've folded in half. These are cut from scraps.

    Cheers --- Larry
  11. cgutzmer

    cgutzmer Guest

    Agreed with the others - the washable school glue will not hold in the long term. I have been using the elmers glue all but I am going to try switching to aleens. Normally the elmers glue all is great but I have had a few parts of my first models start to fall off lately with the stuff - I have some UHU I brought back from France too but havent had the nerve to try it.

    I apply with a toothpick and use a little plastic paint pallette thingy to hold the glue to be used. Any dried up glue just pops right out with a pit of pressure. I can take a pic if my description is a bit lacking.

    I do like that idea of warm water on a coffee warmer plate. There is a distint lack of control with the toothpick but whenever I tried a bruch it just got gooped up instantly. Maybe this would do the trick.....
    Chris
  12. cgutzmer

    cgutzmer Guest

    Agreed with the others - the washable school glue will not hold in the long term. I have been using the elmers glue all but I am going to try switching to aleens. Normally the elmers glue all is great but I have had a few parts of my first models start to fall off lately with the stuff - I have some UHU I brought back from France too but havent had the nerve to try it.

    I apply with a toothpick and use a little plastic paint pallette thingy to hold the glue to be used. Any dried up glue just pops right out with a pit of pressure. I can take a pic if my description is a bit lacking.

    I do like that idea of warm water on a coffee warmer plate. There is a distint lack of control with the toothpick but whenever I tried a bruch it just got gooped up instantly. Maybe this would do the trick.....
    Chris
  13. Larry Marshall

    Larry Marshall Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    363
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is why I've started using paper strips. Someone on this site recommended them and they work great. I cut them wide enough that I can fold them in half and then slightly 'cup' them. This makes them stiff enough to spread glue and you can pick up and apply the glue more precisely than with toothpicks. I've also found that you can improve upon toothpick use by simply using a lot of them, not trying to use one with gobs of dried glue on the end. I've also switched from round to flat toothpicks which are superior glue tools in my view.

    Cheers --- Larry
  14. Larry Marshall

    Larry Marshall Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    363
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is why I've started using paper strips. Someone on this site recommended them and they work great. I cut them wide enough that I can fold them in half and then slightly 'cup' them. This makes them stiff enough to spread glue and you can pick up and apply the glue more precisely than with toothpicks. I've also found that you can improve upon toothpick use by simply using a lot of them, not trying to use one with gobs of dried glue on the end. I've also switched from round to flat toothpicks which are superior glue tools in my view.

    Cheers --- Larry
  15. cgutzmer

    cgutzmer Guest

    I tried the paper strip thing and it turned into a big mess for me. I will go try a box of the flat toothpicks though! Right after trying toh cup of hot water thing...
    Chris
  16. cgutzmer

    cgutzmer Guest

    I tried the paper strip thing and it turned into a big mess for me. I will go try a box of the flat toothpicks though! Right after trying toh cup of hot water thing...
    Chris
  17. 46rob

    46rob Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    468
    Likes Received:
    0
    I use White Glue--either Elmers or Tite-bond, applied with flat toothpicks for general work. I like it because on fuselgage sections, it causes the paper to shrink slightly, giving a more rounded appearance...works especailly well with tabbed joints. I use the 3M 77 for large laminations--for small--a thin coat of white glue works well...although it needs to be clamped so it dries flat. I find the 3M fumes objectionabale--so I use it sparingly--and only outdoors. I also use CA glue, from my local hobby shop, in the "gap filling" consistency--which is a medium consistency--when I need an instant bond. I usually use it in conjuction with the white glue, as CA is brittle and doesn't like much handling. My hobby shop also sells glue nozzels, but I don't use them--as I have found that applying glue with a toothpick is just as precise. I've tried the Aileens--but if you let the white glue set up a bit in a small container--it works nearly identically.
  18. 46rob

    46rob Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    468
    Likes Received:
    0
    I use White Glue--either Elmers or Tite-bond, applied with flat toothpicks for general work. I like it because on fuselgage sections, it causes the paper to shrink slightly, giving a more rounded appearance...works especailly well with tabbed joints. I use the 3M 77 for large laminations--for small--a thin coat of white glue works well...although it needs to be clamped so it dries flat. I find the 3M fumes objectionabale--so I use it sparingly--and only outdoors. I also use CA glue, from my local hobby shop, in the "gap filling" consistency--which is a medium consistency--when I need an instant bond. I usually use it in conjuction with the white glue, as CA is brittle and doesn't like much handling. My hobby shop also sells glue nozzels, but I don't use them--as I have found that applying glue with a toothpick is just as precise. I've tried the Aileens--but if you let the white glue set up a bit in a small container--it works nearly identically.
  19. speedless

    speedless Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi
    Im using the socalled "scool-glue" and a couple different sized brushes for applience,very cheap in toysrus.I cut them to suit.
    The brushes can also be used to paint edges...etc.
    I "pre-glue" joints with the glue thinned;3 parts glue,1 part water.Just brush over the seams,let it dry a moment(nonsticky),then shape the part,apply a thin coat of the same thinned glue and assemble.When using this methode i hardly need any clamps,just my fingers and holdind under a 60w bulb a couple of minutes.
    Sets very fast this way.
    Another advantage with "scoolglue",its possibel to disolve with water after drying,thus making you able to correct mistakes and "gluefingers" (very carefully)
    I have a HP laserjet,the printout is exellent and to avoid the "cracking"
    and scratches i simply paint all parts with 1:1 scoolglue/water,using a wide brush.
    The glue is not visibel after drying on normal card (non glossy).I paint both sides,this also take care of the pre-glueing.This threatment also makes the
    card easy to cut and bend (more "crispy").I also use this after completing the model,makes them much more durable.
    I tryied many types of UHU and other brands of this kind of glue,but i dont like them.They cure to hard and sometimes distort (crimp) junctions.
    I stick to "scool-glue"
    Jan
    I forgot;cyano for stiffining very small parts.(Soak it and let dry before cutout)
    ,
  20. speedless

    speedless Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi
    Im using the socalled "scool-glue" and a couple different sized brushes for applience,very cheap in toysrus.I cut them to suit.
    The brushes can also be used to paint edges...etc.
    I "pre-glue" joints with the glue thinned;3 parts glue,1 part water.Just brush over the seams,let it dry a moment(nonsticky),then shape the part,apply a thin coat of the same thinned glue and assemble.When using this methode i hardly need any clamps,just my fingers and holdind under a 60w bulb a couple of minutes.
    Sets very fast this way.
    Another advantage with "scoolglue",its possibel to disolve with water after drying,thus making you able to correct mistakes and "gluefingers" (very carefully)
    I have a HP laserjet,the printout is exellent and to avoid the "cracking"
    and scratches i simply paint all parts with 1:1 scoolglue/water,using a wide brush.
    The glue is not visibel after drying on normal card (non glossy).I paint both sides,this also take care of the pre-glueing.This threatment also makes the
    card easy to cut and bend (more "crispy").I also use this after completing the model,makes them much more durable.
    I tryied many types of UHU and other brands of this kind of glue,but i dont like them.They cure to hard and sometimes distort (crimp) junctions.
    I stick to "scool-glue"
    Jan
    I forgot;cyano for stiffining very small parts.(Soak it and let dry before cutout)
    ,