Layout wiring - Sanity check please

Discussion in 'FAQs' started by billk, Aug 17, 2002.

  1. billk

    billk Active Member

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    Could someone smarter than me (don't all speak up at once!) give this a look and let me know if I'm on the right track with respect to wiring?

    Thnx, Bill

    Notes:
    1) Turnouts are Peco Electrofrog.
    2) Blue dots are feeders to the rails.
    3) Red lines are insulated rail joiners.
    4) The stub at B doesn't need to be isolated right now, but is planned to be a part of a reverse loop in the future.
    5) Only one set of feeders is shown for the loop, but I plan to add feeders to each piece of flex track in the loop.

    Questions:
    1) Is this right? Have I missed anything?
    2) The insulated rail joiners will, for the most part, be at the end of turnouts. Is this a problem?
    3) The feeders at point A will probably need to made by soldering them to the rail joiners connecting the two turnouts. I don't plan on soldering joiners to the turnouts so they can be removed more easily. Is this a problem?
  2. Tyson Rayles

    Tyson Rayles Active Member

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    1- yes
    2- no
    3- no
    Congrats you pass track wiring 101! :D My Nantahala Midland uses the same turnouts, is wired the same way and I've had no problems (well none related to wiring :D :rolleyes: :D ).
  3. shamus

    shamus Registered Member

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    Hi Bill, The top blue power points are not needed. otherwise all okay, If as you say you are putting in a reverse loop at (B) then these power points would be needed, but as it is now, they don't.

    Shamus
    [​IMG]

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  4. Gary Pfeil

    Gary Pfeil Active Member

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    Aren't Peco electrofrog turnouts power routing? That is, is the route not selected dead? If so, there is no need to gap the stock rail of the diverging route when that track is stub ended, throwing the turnout against it will kill power. Also, if you are going to control only one loco, you can omit the power feed as Shamus said, although your statement you would attach feeds to each track is a good one. If you want to stop a train on the loop while running one in the siding area, then the gaps you show on the loop on both sides of the crossover are required.
    One more thing, soldering leads to rail joiners but not to the rail is fine for "temprary" operations. Over time, and that length of time is highly dependant on many factors, mostly humidity, temperature and dust levels, the electrical connection will build resistance and offer erratic operation. It could last years, or six months, who knows? If it does present a problem down the road, you could clean it up and solder then, so no big deal.

    Gary
  5. shamus

    shamus Registered Member

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    Gary,
    Bill is going to make a reverse loop at that stub end sometime, thats why its gapped and powered for now. You still wouldn't need power to the top rails even running two or more trains as when the point is thrown, those tracks at the top would be dead:D

    Shamus
    [​IMG]
  6. 60103

    60103 Pooh Bah

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    insulated joiners on Peco switches

    Bill:
    If you put the joiners on the end of the Peco switches, you will probably have to widen the gap they go into. Use an Xacto knife to carve excess plastic away from around the rail. You may also have to cut the plastic joiners a bit shorter on the frog side to get them to side on far enough.
  7. billk

    billk Active Member

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    Thanks, everyone, for their replies. I feel more confident now.
    Shamus and Gary, if I don't put in the top connectors, won't that section be unpowered? It has gaps at both ends.

    Gary, point well taken about not soldering the joiners, that's why I brought it up. Other than at the turnouts, I am soldering the joiners, and also am soldering the feeders directly to the rails. Just wanted to avoid soldering anything to the turnouts, at least for now. But like you said, if it becomes a problem I can deal with it later.

    David, the turnouts come with plenty of room for joiners. What they do is provide extra ties that clip onto the bottom of the joiners. That's for the Code 55 stuff, anyway, maybe some trimming would be needed for the Code 80.
  8. Gary Pfeil

    Gary Pfeil Active Member

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    Bill (and Shamus) Shamus is correct that you would not need feeders to the top since the turnout is power routing. On his diagram, you will note he eliminated one set of gaps, to the right of the turnouts. Power will route down that track only when the turnout is thrown for it. I would still run a power buss beneath the track and bring up feeders, if you elect to leave out the gap as shown in Shamus's drawing, the outer rail of the loop would need to have its buss connected to rail coming from the turnouts frog, not to the power pack. This will work, I hadn't thought of it. I always think of using power routing turnouts to control power to stub ended tracks, not ovals. With this arraingement you will only be able to run trains on the loop when the turnout (to the outer stub track) is thrown for the loop. Now, depending on the length of the loop, this is no problem. But with suffiecient length, you may want to be able to use part of that trackage for switching purposes while leaving a train further down the loop. In that case, put back the gaps and power that section as you were going to. The gaps should be far enough away from the turnout to give you the room you need for that switching. Hope that was all clear.

    Gary
  9. shamus

    shamus Registered Member

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    If you really wanted to run a lot of loco's without DCC, you can do it this way, using block control. This is a 5 block control.

    Shamus
    [​IMG]

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  10. YakkoWarner

    YakkoWarner Member

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    Bill, if you look closely at Shamus' diagram you will se that he left out one set of insulators allowing power to the "top" portion of the loop, without a second set of feeders.

    Gary, the peco electro-frogs are power diverting but you still need to gap at least one rail on the down track side of the switch or it will short out.
  11. Gary Pfeil

    Gary Pfeil Active Member

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    Yakko, (can I call you Yakko?) I understand that, I mentioned that I think of using power routing turnouts to control power to stub ended tracks, not ovals. However, where exactly you gap the rail coming from the frog is worthy of some thought. It depends on how you intend to operate. As long as the buss from which you feed the rail is connected to the proper power source, you will have no shorts. That is, all rail prior to a gap following a frog needs to be wired to the output of the frog, not the power pack or cab switch. All rail beyond the gap is wired to the power source, not the frog. Putting the gap up near the clearance point of the turnout allows you to bring a train up to a turnout thrown against it, where it can wait for the arrival of an opposing train. Moving the gap back allows use of some distance of that track as part of the block including the turnout. Most often, it is desirable to have the gap near the turnout, but in some cases, perhaps like in Bill's design, it may be desirable to utilize some of that loop trackage to switch. One thing to watch out for when placing the gaps further away is that you don't cross those gaps with a train heading toward the turnout when the turnout is thrown against you, that will cause a short. A signal next to the gap would be ideal. I think you know all this and write it for the benefit of all on the forum.

    Gary