lacquer

Discussion in 'General Card Modeling' started by generaldiaz, Nov 21, 2015.

  1. generaldiaz

    generaldiaz New Member

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    so I was wondering if anyone has ever used lacquer to try to strengthen/seal their models. I heard this idea and I was interested in the concept of it, but wanted to know if anyone has experience with this.
  2. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

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    You would have to see the effect it has on your Ink. If you are using pigment Ink, it may hold on better. If you printer uses Dye based ink, it will probably run. You have to try on a scrap to follow. Lacquers tend to yellow though, I personally would use a Polyurethane clear coat, in very liht passes till it sealed up and could take a nice strong pass. Some models benefit from Satin finishes as opposed to gloss. I have mixed real rust in small bottles with this stuff and painted it onto surfaces for great effect. :)
  3. generaldiaz

    generaldiaz New Member

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    ahh. what I have done and what I plan to do is all "blank" models and then go back through and color and decal how I want. would there be a "strength" difference the polyurethane and the lacquer or would you estimate they are pretty comparable?
  4. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

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    If you are going to paint your models, personally, if you could work outside, and took the proper precautions, I would saturate them with Crazy glue and let them dry for 4 or 5 days, to get rid of the smell. I have a 30 year old paper row boat ( 9 inches long) that I stick in water occasionally, built using this method. I won't use that stuff anymore though, it's just too toxic and builds up in your system.

    I would think the lacquer, of even shellac would be stronger and stiffer, but I would use internal structures to maintain rigidity and keep the surfaces taught. If you rely on a planes of paper, without a stout internal structure, it will warp, and you will eventually have problems, regardless.
  5. spaceagent-9

    spaceagent-9 Right Hand Man and Confidant Moderator

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    I have hear dof people that love to use mop&glow applied with a sponge. but most dust with very light coats of krylon clear coat, 3-5 very light dust coats, holding the can 10inches away at least, and then a light spray, let dry, do this all over the model 3-5 times.
  6. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

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    Krylon will protect and seal (it's the best!), but if you don't do both sides and edges, moisture will make it's way through, this is why a frame is so important, if it is essential, use wood, like Popsicle Sticks, they work great, as does Balsa wood. The frame will keep your model square and in shape. :)
  7. generaldiaz

    generaldiaz New Member

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    hmm I will definitely have to look into those ideas. will using multi layers of paper help give a similar outcome similar to Paper Mache?
  8. spaceagent-9

    spaceagent-9 Right Hand Man and Confidant Moderator

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    layers are everything with paper models, you might want to paint on the details if you are going for super-layered detail.
  9. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

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    Layering paper comes out as good as the former underneath. You can use toilet paper (unscented) and the nice thing about that is that it absorbs glues so well, it makes layering really good. That is where a spray wax would make a good mold release, and a two part epoxy can make a good mold surface. Sanding in between will smooth bumps, and you can get compound curves that are not attainable any other way. :)
  10. generaldiaz

    generaldiaz New Member

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    TP really? who knew that there was a craft use for the rest of the roll and not just the tube in the center. lol. I will have to do some shop tests on these ideas and see how things turn out.
  11. Kjev

    Kjev Member

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    That's some really great advice, Zathros! I'm working on a Siege Tank from Starcraft right now. I'm also building it "vanilla," and going to paint it afterwards. Some of the more detailed parts I've soaked in super glue (super glue GEL does not work for this, by the way) and sanded, but a lot of the interior pieces I've reinforced with balsa and cardboard.

    I was actually considering giving the whole thing a coat of lacquer when I found this post.

    Attached Files:

  12. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

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    Show us how it works out for you! :)
  13. Kjev

    Kjev Member

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    I will. I actually have a build-along being written, but since this has been in the works for about 4 years, I'm going to finish it, then post it all at once.
  14. Kjev

    Kjev Member

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    I tried lacquer on a few models today. They are still drying (and I'm waiting for my head to clear--That stuff STINKS!)

    So here's what I've learned:

    Safety first: Use a well-ventilated room! My wife actually banished me to the back porch, which is a bit chilly this time of year (it's 30 degrees or so right now, so at least it's above freezing).

    With that in mind, I didn't just want to attack my siege tank with the lacquer. I've put too much time, tears, and profanity into that thing to screw it up now. I made a test box, and covered it with different types of paper, odd bits of cardboard, and even made sure to use the three different types of glue I use (White school glue--really runny, Elmer's craft glue--tacky, and superglue--when I want to become one with my model:biggrin:) In case anyone's wondering, I used a cheapo disposable sponge brush. I'll save my good brushes for actual paint.

    [​IMG]

    After that, I started painting. I was surprised at how fast a light coat dried. It only took about a minute. I noticed a few things. First is that the lacquer won't really soak in where there is glue, and second, it tends to darken the areas where it does soak in. You can see here where I've painted a few sides and left one unpainted for contrast.

    [​IMG]

    It also soaks through plain white paper more than cardstock of any type.

    Since it seemed to work well, I went ahead and painted the Jotun I'm working on. It was a happy accident, but the magnets I put in the joints came in handy.

    [​IMG]

    Once it's dry, the laquer leaves the painted surface harder. It almost feels like plastic. I've used it on wood before, but never on paper. I'd recommend laminating or reinforcing whatever it is you are painting beforehand, just to help prevent warping.

    Hope that helps y'all!
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  15. mbauer

    mbauer Cardstock Model designer

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    I've used the spray on lacquer that had a UV protectant to help save the ink from fading.

    Didn't seem to add any strength, but after several years the model is still nice and shiny.

    Used very light coats to cover it.

    Have heard of using minwax wood hardener to increase the strength of cardstock.
    Wood Hardener.jpg

    Mike
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2016
  16. Kjev

    Kjev Member

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    I've never heard of that, but since I do woodworking now and again (usually when it's a lot warmer outside), I'll look into it!
  17. mbauer

    mbauer Cardstock Model designer

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    It's main purpose is for fixing "rotten" wood.

    Years ago someone had high praise for how it hardens cardstock-if I remember right they used a few coatings on the cardstock, once the model was made. Talked about turning it into a plastic like hardness.

    I keep thinking I'm going to buy some and give it a try, but never have.

    Mike
  18. Kjev

    Kjev Member

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    I made some wooden knives for our dojo last year, and gave them each 2-3 coats of lacquer. I used rock maple, and walnut, both hardwoods, and poplar, which is sort of hard. I noticed after lacquering them, they felt more like plastic than wood.
  19. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

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    I've made paper knives before that would definitely kill, laminated with liquid, and Gap filing crazy glue. There is a neat self defense trick, if you have nothing, and can grab a newspaper, roll that sucker up as tight as you can, and it becomes extremely hard. You can knock someone out with it. It has to be extremely tight, but you would be surprised how fast you can do that. ;)
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  20. Kjev

    Kjev Member

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    On the newspaper, that's very true. I have use superglue to harden things up, I also found this neat trick in an old book on model railroading:

    If you have a gap, fill it with baking soda. Good old Arm & Hammer works just fine. Avoid the box in the fridge, because it seems to absorb moisture, which inhibits the super glue's reaction.

    Once you have the gap filled, clean up the area around it. Brush away any backing soda particles.

    Drop a drop or 2 of super glue onto the baking soda in your gap. It works even better if you can get the glue to flow into the soda. Capillary action will do the rest.

    Super glue and baking soda have a chemical reaction, producing heat (you can actually feel it), which helps the glue dry even faster.

    Wait a minute, and your gap is now filled with a rock hard gap filler. It can be sanded, filed, drilled, painted, or whatever. It works on paper models extremely well, and works on those old plastic models, too.

    Now, about those paper knives..... :)