Flying Ship Model Design Study

Discussion in 'Software' started by Gil, Jul 22, 2005.

  1. bholderman

    bholderman Member

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    Here's a dumb question. What does the term "flymodel" refer to?

    Brad
  2. Gil

    Gil Active Member

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    Brad,

    Flymodel is a cardmodel publisher.

    Gil
  3. bholderman

    bholderman Member

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    Gil,

    Thanks, Im not sure why I was so in the dark in regards to that.

    Brad
  4. Gil

    Gil Active Member

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    Details

    Update:

    Pan American World Airways logos on the sides of the nose and Boeing logos on the tails required a little sleuthing and cleanup work in Photoshop. Snapshots of some of this work in progress.

    Jim, I'd appreciate you asking your friend about the color of the Pan Am logo. The color represented is just my interpretation and needs to be tuned in for authenticity. Haven't found any color photos of the clippers and need first person involvement if you can swing it. Thanks in advance. The Boeing logo was black (80% probability of being correct). I've looked at some of the "Sims" of the clipper and they seem to have access to the same photographs that I do...,

    Further work is in progress to finish the rest of the fuselage. Boeing did some interesting design work where the tail joins the horizontal stabilizer..., this might take some playing around with to get it to look right in paper and then again, I might just get lucky..., Till then enjoy.

    Gil
  5. Jim Krauzlis

    Jim Krauzlis Active Member

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    Hi, Gil!

    She's looking great, really great!

    I have dropped a note to my friend and hope he can provide some insight, but I meanwhile did a bit of a search on the web and found an official logo which I show below. This is from a flying clipper webpage dealing with the Pan Am Clippers in particular, and this is the clearest logo I have found...the color you showed is pretty right on, but the design seems a bit more detailed in this logo.

    [​IMG]

    This poster from the era seems to confirm the logo was actually a bit more detailed as well:

    [​IMG]

    Here is another poster which suggests the color scheme:

    [​IMG]

    One thing I noticed in this last poster, and saw in another diagram of the aircraft, is a broad red band across the topsides of the wings. Here is an image from the Pan Am Foundation webpage which I hope shows what I am referring to:

    [​IMG]

    Here is a nice webpage on the clipper, with some more photos:
    http://www.zpub.com/sf/history/sfh-cc.html

    Anyway, I hope some of this is helpful...when I get more from my friend, I will let you know. Keep at it, she's coming along superbly!!

    Cheers!

    Jim
  6. Gil

    Gil Active Member

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    Logos

    Jim, thanks for the assist. The Pan Am logo that you posted is a more detailed one that the company used for letteread, brochures and other pritned materials during the period. The logo used on the clippers was more stylized as can be seen in the photograph below (California Clipper in this case). This is aviation archaeology and is the type of research any artist will undertake in preparation to the execution of work. Thanks again and give my regards to your relation who flew these birds.

    Best regards, Gil

    P.S. In the picture there's a wedge shaped object above the flag and to the left of the porthole. I believe this was to deflect the slipstream to create a ventilation draw from the porthole. See if your contact remembers this as I have a feeling that these planes got very hot inside especially in the tropics.
  7. Jim Krauzlis

    Jim Krauzlis Active Member

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    Hi, Gil!

    I'm more than happy to assist in whatever way I am able in your design of this model. I'm lucky to have the assist of my friend (actually, he is an old class mate of my wife) whose father flew on them as an engineer, as I mentioned earlier...sadly his father has since passed away so the first hand accounts are lost somewhat. I gather, however, this friend of ours has had a keen interest in this aircraft because of his father's career and may have a good deal of information that might be helpful. He has a number of books on this aircraft and promised to send me a list so I can pass it on to you to see if you are interested in borrowing any of them.

    He believes your comments about the wedge are correct, at least to aleviate a parasitic drag from the hatch when opened in flight, not to mention a howling wind.

    He also mentioned he has an earlier model of this plane that he thinks came with very detailed instructions as to color schemes, which, if he can locate it, will pass on as well...that might help in your painting the templates later one, or making different color schemes available...these planes were apparently of some interest to the Japanese forces in the Pacific during WWII and they captured one or two, despite being painted ina camo scheme. This gets more interesting the more I hear about this aircraft!

    I gather it's still a bit early to figure out what scale you might be using in the end...?

    Talk to you later,

    Cheers!

    Jim
  8. Gil

    Gil Active Member

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    Jim,

    I will gladly accept any information that you can provide on the subject. There is one book that includes detailed drawings of the subject that is out of print. I can't find my referrence note on it right now but look forward to your friends bibliography list.

    I've decided that the scale will be 1:32 for this model.

    Best regards, Gil
  9. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

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    Gil,

    I've got a couple of books on Flying Boats, I'll look for info if you would like.

    john

    P.S.

    Looks great and I really like the scale.
  10. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

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    Gil,

    My book is Seaplanes of the World - A Timeless Collection from Aviation's Golden Age by Bill Yenne

    Not too many pictures, and only small ones at that.

    One in color photo shows the red on top of the wing, and the book states "The red wing panels were for visibilty if the aircraft was to be forced down at sea."

    It has a color cut-a-way view and a two page picutre of the flight deck, Leif the pencil sharpener was on the left side looking toward the nose!

    It also says

    "Of the six 314As, only three were delivered to Pan American. The others were delivered to British Overseas Airways (BOAC), and were taken over by the British governement. One was assigned as Prime Minister Winston Churchill's personal transport. When the United States entered the war, the American Clippers were taken over by the Navy and USAAF, but continued to be flown by Pan American crews. One of these was used by President Franklin Roosevelt."

    It only gives two names for the three Pan American planes..........Yankee Clipper and Dixie Clipper
  11. Gil

    Gil Active Member

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  12. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

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    Sorry Gil, :?

    I guess the info in my book is WAY out-of-date. :oops:

    Shoulda check the net.

    john
  13. Gil

    Gil Active Member

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    John,

    Information sources are becoming more and more suspect as competitiion with net sources heats up. Network sources are always suspect unless they're from the manufacturing source which is Boeing. Obtaining relevant drawings is an even bigger nightmare. For much of the detail one has to rely on photographs and general practices and methods used in the period and on other better documented model types by the same manufacturer. In this case the B-17...,

    Best regards and thanks for the effort, Gil
  14. Leif Oh

    Leif Oh Member

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    Gil, couldn't help noticing how one of the pictures in the link you provided demonstrates the difference in alu shine:

    [​IMG]

    There's a challenge for you, replicating that intricate, and rather random, pattern!

    Leif
  15. Gil

    Gil Active Member

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    Leif, you're incredibly perceptive. Subtle variations between panels, position and lighting creates a nightmare for illustrating this on paper. An aluminum background or facsimile aids this somewhat but still doesn't leave the viewer with the "look and feel" required for the suspension of disbelief, the mark of good modeling. Nice problem huh?

    Gil
  16. Kevin G

    Kevin G Member

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    Just a thought here, what if you just made subtle changes to the coloration of each panel? Seems that would be easy to do but then again it is always easy to make a suggestion when you are not the one labouring away at the project! I do repaints for aircraft in Flight Simulator 2004, and know very well how difficult it is to do this sort of painting job.
    Stick with it and I am sure it will turn out great. Everything is lookin wonderful so far keep up the good work!
  17. Leif Oh

    Leif Oh Member

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    Kevin, this difference between individual panels was exactly the reason for the thread on simulating unpainted alu. Bottom line, you are absolutely right; you've got to colour each panel slightly different from those next to it - whether you use an alu foil derivate or just plain paper. In addition, each panel should have its more or less individual gradient of light reflecting sky, earth - and water; different if the panel is situated on top of the aircraft, on the sides, or at the bottom.

    Would be interesting if you had a chance to glance through the thread on alu painting and possibly shed some light on the problem, seeing as how you have in all probability already encountered it in painting liveries for sims.

    Best, Leif
  18. Gil

    Gil Active Member

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    Flying Flag Detail

    Update:

    The following article is good information to ponder regarding the aluminum panel debate.

    http://www.largescaleplanes.com/tips/MikeMcLeod/NMF/nmf.html

    The U.S. Flag on the fuselage nose of the California Clipper needed to be redrawn using Adobe Illustrator. Found the information regarding it's proportions on the Server at the U.S. Consulate in Stockholm, Sweden..., Straight flags were used on the underside of the sponsons and on the nose of later clippers.

    Fuselage lofting continues. Internal structure is beginning to gel...,

    Gil
  19. shrike

    shrike Guest

    As I recall the big straight flags were "neutrality" markings for the trans-Pacific runs. so checking the individual aircraft vis a vis a specific date might be in order.