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Discussion in 'Aircraft & Aviation' started by Gil, Sep 4, 2006.
The book was based in WWII on a completely different subject
it's a good book too.
Very reluctantly, I am replying to this thread.
Any new film about WW1, in my opinion, is very welcome and from what I have seen so far of this film, will change the modern conception of what it was like to be a pilot in that war.. My grandfather flew and survived as a pilot in France and Flanders from 1915 until 1918 and in his opinion , the only film that he had seen that came any where close to reality was Aces High. Dawn Patrol was not.
P.S. What has this thread got to do with card modelling?
Card Modeling, Films and Aviation History
IMHO, it has got a lot to do with card modeling, at least for me.
If I am to build a card model of let´s say a Gotha G.4, a Nieuport 17, a Zeppelin airship or a Fokker Dr.I, I want to know as much as possible about my modeling subject.
First of all, research is necessary in order to be able to replicate it in paper as accurately as it is possible - an interesting challenge in itself.
But I also find that every connection that I can find related to the model subject broadens my horizons, gives me a better understanding of what it was like to operate and fly these planes and what the pilots experienced temselves. It is also interesting from a historical point of view, and as examples of technical development.
So, I find that a thread like this one has everything to do with the fine art of card modeling.
Sorry but we seem to be at odds here.
I agree wholeheartedly with you that all research into a model is valuable but I understood that this thread was about the merits or otherwise of a recent film production.
As most modellers try to reproduce a model of the ORIGINAL aircraft, not a studio mock-up or model made for a film, I feel that Dawn Patrol has no benefits whatsoever re research nor, according to people that I had the privilege to speak to who experienced this horror, does it convey a true picture of the campaign in the air 1914-1918.
Beejay and others
I haven't seen Flyboys yet...probably will this week though. As far as I am concerned, movies are an important part of card modeling. They have give me ideas for dioramas and if the producers are worth their while, they researched the CG subjects in the film, giving a modeler, as Bengt said, a new research tool.
The Helldivers in King Kong were very accurate in their depiction. Still images from those scenes would go a long way helping someone build one of the aircraft...and I do know still images help in modeling.
During my military days, I had the pleasure of assisting photographers and artists in getting what they needed to produce their artwork. I know artists who paint aircraft images do a hell of a lot of research before they put paint to canvas. Photographers in a different way prepare themselves for the event of taking the image. All those together help the modeler in one way or another. If the producers of the movie wanted to make the aircraft as accurate as possible, their CG guys would have done a lot of research.
Although this site is about card modeling, one of the things which makes it better than any of the other sites, is the ability for the membership to discuss things other than card models as card models. As the moderator of this forum, this discussion doesn't bother me at all. It might if the topic turned to silica percentage levels of pre-1980 Mt. St. Helens ash (there is another forum topic that discussion would fit into if anyone is interested 8v). But the discussion of aircraft fit right in with the Aircraft Models title of this section of the forum.
And one other thing...anytime you have fuel vapors and a small amount of liquid fuel in a confined space with the right temperature and pressure, you have a bomb. It would take nothing more than a spark generated by a round penetrating a metal tank to provide just such a thing and cause the tank to explode. It may not have happened often, but I have no trouble believing WW I aircraft could blow up. We all have seen WW II aircraft blow up. Actually some of the newer fuels are a lot safer in that regard, but the JP-4 I dispensed in my first Air Force job was one of the most dangerous fuels available. It had an unknown flash point and could blow at anytime.
Couldn't agree more with Ash--when I design a model--I want to learn eaverything I can about it. Makes the design process easier if you know what the thingamajiggy on the bottom was, and how it was used, it makes it easier to model it, than just an outline on a three view. Books, static displays, movies and "there I was" stories all make the subject come alive. It is totally appropriate to discuss the merits of a movie--not only technically, but overall. Many cardmodelers are not just paper gluing 'droids, but their real hobby is recreating an era, not only in paper, but in their mind--media--get it? Now if I was interested in WW1, and flight to be specific--I'd be anxious to see anything on the subject. Given that the cost of admission to a theater for a family of four puts a serious dent in the old budget--I'd want to know beforehand if the thing was a "must" or a "bust".
Hit a gas tank with a steel jacketed bullet--an explosion will be the normal result.
JP-4 was scary stuff--not as bad as 115/145, though. That's why the Navy went to JP-5 aboard ship--you could toss matches into a bucket of the stuff and they'd just go out (although not advised)
The Experience of Card Modeling
Ash and Rob,
Thanks - very eloquently put. This is just how I feel about card modeling.
It´s a "wholesome" experience that broadens your mind.
All the best,
Thanks. This site is one of the reasons I enjoy card modeling so much. I can learn a lot about a lot and still enjoy a fun hobby of destroying paper products. 8v)
You ain't kidding about 115/145 AVGAS. That purple stuff was one of my most hated substances ever. Two things I remember most about it was things that happened to me. The first was when I was top filling one of our old R-2 (Heil model) refueler. To do that you needed lean over the hatch on top of the 5,000 gallon tank and watch the level to make sure you didn't overfill the tank. On more than one occasion I got light headed, and one time actually passed out, rolled off the tank and slammed into the tarmac 12 feet or so below. Lucky for me, I only banged my head.
The second incident was with the same truck and the same fill stand. I had emptied the truck on the line of H-21 helicopters and four prop birds we had at Elmendorf at the time. As I grabbed the fill pipe and went to move it through the hatch to begin the filling operation, something somewhere sparked and the vapors inside the tank ignited. I tossed the fill pipe away, slammed down the hatch cover (and what follows, I got from the bulk storage guy with me at the time), and then leaped off the top of the tank yelling FIRE!
I hit the ground running with the other guy right along side of me. We ran about 200 feet to an open area and stopped, turned around and waited. After a few minutes or so and nothing happening, we went back, inspected the truck and found nothing out of the ordinary. So, we finished the filling operation. When we returned to our respective offices, we each filed a report and the incident all but forgotten. But I'll never forget that rush of blue flame coming out of that hatch...still makes me shiver to this day and it happened 35 years ago.
Now...back to card modeling and Flyboys. I think today I will go see it.
Thanks for the heads up on Hell's Angels, I've ordered it, along with the Blue Max from Amazon.
Great stories...and very card modeling-oriented as well. It's a very clear explanation for why your hobby is something as zen-like as card modeling (grin).
Cheers --- Larry
Really for a lot of us--the hobby is actually aviation: card modeling is only one facet of it. For me, my two days a week out at the resto hangar working on the "Jig Dog", designing models, researching, reading, watching planes (every Tues and Wed the Blue Angels fly a practice--I can watch it from my work bench in the hangar) and swapping sea/airplane stories is all part of the experience. Life is good, here in Pensacola.
Then you´ll have two of the very best films made to date.