Eastern Tn logging on the DG CC & W RR 1928

Discussion in 'Logging, Mining and Industrial Railroads' started by Bill Nelson, Dec 15, 2008.

  1. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    Well put Bill. If I might add a few things along the line that you mentioned since Steamhead made a similar comment on my Thread. Like you said Bill most of the stuff we all do is because we've seen someone else do it. I am 54 & started modeling with a Lionel when I was 9. I stopped when I started driving & admiring the girls. After having only 2 daughters for a very long time my little miracle boy came along now 15. We bought him his first train when he was 8. We have been modeling ever since. I have always raised my kids encouraging their self motivation. I believe with prayer & motivation the sky can be your limit. I have always felt If someone else can do it why can't I. Yes there have been things I couldn't do & some I wished I had never tryed but at least I know I gave it my best & don't have the regret of not trying.Don't ever think that because you know something regardless of what it is that everybody else knows as well. That is why it is important to post those things you know & have done to encourage others.My Mill project was gathering dust until I got on this Forum & was impressed at the work both Bill & Tom as well as others are doing.Now they got me wanting to get my Coal Mine out & start working on it again.I'll let their new Thread dust settle a little before I do that:mrgreen:So jump in with both feet & do something even if it's messed up then you can learn how to fix it.Hope this encourages someone.Thanks again Bill.
  2. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    inspiration/motivation

    Another big factor in the inspiration and motivation department for me has been Dr. Tom. Before I ran into DR tom, pretty much my accident (his brother Bill is my primary care physician), I didn't know anyone in Clarksville who was into trains, no LHS worth mentioning.


    Finding someone who was doing exactly what I was doing so many years ago has had an affect on my modeling skills, inspiration, techniques and philosophy that is impossible to quantify. There is no telling what our work would look like now had we not met so many years ago. In this long collaboration we have borrowed from each other triumphs and horrible mistakes equally, which has helped keep the hobby interesting.

    Now with the miracle of the internet, and this wonderful site, we can share what has become a common perspective with others, who are geographically challenged, and don't live near us.


    Bill Nelson
  3. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

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    Amen to both you guys (Bill and Sawdust). This hobby is great and the people you get to meet even greater!!!!!

    Dr Tom:thumb:
  4. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    SMLnwfmrks#1.jpg SMLnwfmrks#2.jpg SMLnwfmrksw buford.jpg finaly some visable progress

    I painted some carved foam rocks that were kind of an afterthought, making a kind of fillet at the base of the cliff under Wildwood and Sander's Gorge, next to Perry's Gizzard.


    The paint is still wet in these photos, and the rocks should dull out some when they dry


    In the Sanders Gorge photo Buford is visible. He used to wander around the mountains from time to time. I found him cleaning out my son's computer desk, and now Buford is back!

    Sir Topum hat, from one of my son's collections, is visible in the first photo, up past the Sander's gorge bridge, supervising the extension of the narrow gauge into Gegokayoosa. It is my habit to place Sir Topum Hat (the fat contoler in the original literature,) near where I have a lot of work to do to supervise.

    Bill Nelson
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  5. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Active Member

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    You added that right hand corder section "after the fact", right?
  6. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

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    Hi Bill,

    The exstension of the waterfall and the additional rock ledge is great. Glad to see you are givng foam a try.

    When I start on the On30 ET&WNC layout it will be 100% foam. I hope to construct the modules "out in the shed" and bring them in avoiding any kind of "plaster mess" that would get me in trouble with the domestic authorities.

    If you delve further in to foam techniques we will need to learn how to carve it. I am thinking of the strata of rocks at Pardee Point in the Doe River Gorge on the ET&WNC. This is a must model site on theis interesting RR.

    Tom

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  7. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Active Member

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    Thin foam layers glued together and tilted at an angle. Or ditto ceiling tile. Piece of cake. Lot of this formation in Colorado. :cool:
  8. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    Great job guys but carving all that foam can be avoided. I do as Mountain Man mentioned. I layer the foam whether it be 1/2" to 4" depending on my need like making a cake. I glue this using latex caulk ( silicone will eat the foam) & push finish nails through the layers to keep them intact. I then mix up some Structo-lite which is a plastering material very easy to work with & cover the layered foam foundation with it like icing the cake. This has a long working time before setting up. After it gets a little stiff start carving with a scalpel type knife.Making rock shapes, ledges,cliffs,ridges,out croppings for trees or bushes becomes easy once you get the hang of it. One of the good things is if you don't like what you have done brush it out with a dampened brush & start over. When this stuff dries ( over night) it has a nice weathered gray color & dosen't take much to add the details. Sometimes I just add a A/I wash with some grass & bushes. Hope this helps!
  9. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

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    These are very good ideas. Perhaps also using foam core board on end in layers. In O scale (On30) this would probably make some convincing strata.

    Part of the charm of the ET&WNC in the Doe river gorge is that the cliffs are in places 1000 feet high and the railbed was laid on a ledge blasted out of the rock face. This is very similar to the western narrow guage like that in the Animas gorge. In my reading,men and donkeys were lowered by rope to this ledge to do the work.

    Here is a modern day picture of the ET&WNC railbed in the Doe River Gorge.
    Doc Tom :rolleyes:

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  10. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

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    Beautiful ET&WNC (Tweetsie) #12

    Here is one of the reasons I would like to do the ET&WNC in On30.

    This beautiful engine in On30 from Bachmann is on the water now and due to arrive for sale this summer.

    Doc Tom:wave:

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  11. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    This would be a great scene to model & you wouldn't even need the mules! I have used the method of the structo-lite on these types of hillsides. Once the stuff sets up a bit you can slide the knife in horizontal angles to give you the compressed rock layer look then go back with some slanted vertical lines as your pic looks. You can pull the material out deep under some of these lines to give you the ledges. I also like the Tweetsie! fantastic looking engine.
  12. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    I liked carving the foam. I layered up some inch thick pink foam (the only stuff they used to carry here, although I have seen some inch and a half stuff recently. The layers were held together with bamboo shish-kabob skewers. they weren't glued together at all until I painted them. while painting I gently separated the layers some, and then smushed them back together after painting, the acrylic paint seems to be doing a good job of gluing it together.

    I carved the foam with a serrated steak knife, which worked remarkably well. I had a vacuum cleaner in the other hand, and so Downtown Harlow didn't get much pink snow.


    The whole exercise was a bit of a rush job, and the result has exceeded my expectations. Next comes some of the fun, adding vegetation and the water, and the little graveyard scene, next to that little church , which is one of my best projects ever.

    Scenically, there isn't much to do on my RR, more trees and vegetation, and millions of details and upgrades

    Bill Nelson
  13. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    SML 2-4-4-T.jpg SML2-6-2T.jpg SML NG div #1.jpg SML DG stub.jpg SML NG diver#2.jpg progress


    Right you are mountain man! If you look where the south fork of Crooked creek crosses the fascia, that is the original front edge of the Gizzard module. Behind that line, most of that section of RR is 30 years old. That section of the layout four feet by seven feet originally gained 18 inches vertically via two loops; in order to get a second level over a two foot by six foot switching layout. The rest of my railroad was built around these two modules with disastrous results.

    In it's current location, I did not need the second loop, and it was abandoned. Later the narrow gauge found it's way across the old abandoned standard gauge.

    You can follow the line of the fascia up the rocks in the cliff, everything in front of that line is less than two years old. This brand new foam scenery extension is being done to blend in the new and the old a little better, and to give me some room around that church (some of my best work ever-detailed photos to follow).


    This morning I did some work on some of my problematic narrow gauge locomotives, and they are running ok, and staying on the track for the first time in the 30 and 25 years that I have owned them. time to get them couplers, and some better paint!
    so here are some photos of these locomotives, and the track that they didn't like until today.

    fitting front couplers on these will be a bear, which is a shame, as they run close enough at some throttle settings to double head, and the grade to Gegokayoosa really needs that, as it was built with standard gauge shays in mind.
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  14. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    SML St. Joseph's  partial  int#2.jpg SML St. Joseph's partial interior  #3.jpg SML St. Joseph's.jpg St. Joseph's partial interior.jpg SML St. Joseph's  partial  int#2.jpg SML St. Joseph's partial interior  #3.jpg SML St. Joseph's.jpg St. Joseph's partial interior.jpg one thing leads to another!

    While working on my foam scenery extension, in between the Gizzard and Sander's Gorge it became obvious to me that the church up there in the Gizzard ( St Joseph's ), needed some work, It had some wood trim off up in one of the gables (carefully stowed in side, and thus not lost;) and when the plaster was carved on the cliffs by sanders gorge plaster and water got on the church roof. Cleaning and additional weathering, didn't help, so the church needed it roof to be repainted.

    So I brought the church down stairs, and re painted the roof, and did some work refreshing the interior, adding some figures and a wood stove, which had been long planned, but not installed yet.

    The light bulbs have burned out, so I still need to attend to that ( where is the junior warden when you need him). so far all the grain of rice bulbs I have found are 1.5 V and I need some 12 V. . I have these lights , and one in the Strong and perry sawmill hooked up to an accessory feed off of one of my power packs, so the lights are only on when the train power is on. Unfortunately I have been known to leave the RR room with the power on to the trains. I even did that once, with a PFM 3 truck shay stalled @ low voltage, which let the smoke out of it's motor .

    This is your Que, somebody ask me about the smoke theory of electricity.)


    In any case, as soon as I find some 12V. grain of rice bulbs I can get the lights back on in the Gizzard. Building lighting is something I haven't gotten to yet, except in the Gizzard, and there only @ St Joseph's and the Strong and Perry Lumber Co. You might ask, why only the gizzard?

    Dr Tom will confirm that the gizzard is the natural focus point of my RR. You might look at my whole RR, but unless you are forcibly directed elsewhere, You are going to look at the Gizzard first. Crooked Creek is the operational center of my RR, bur Perry's Gizzard is the visual, and spiritual center of my RR, as is fitting, as it is also the oldest portion of my railroad, and it's ill conceived standards permeate and ruin my whole RR. The grade is too steep, the curves are too tight, the rail is too light, the ties are rotting due to old age, a little less attention to the prototype would have yielded more tolerable results.

    and while you are in the Gizzard, be sure to stop by St. Joseph's, where all of God's childern are welcome, but not as welcome as the mason we need to build the outside piece of the chimney!


    Bill Nelson

    Clarksville Tn
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  15. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

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    Church in the Gizzard

    Hi Bill,

    Always loved that Church and the Gizzard truly is the focal point of your railroad. Looks like the engineer and fireman are doing some praying in the
    "Amen corner" of the Church. Probably in thanksgiving for surviving the harrowing ride to the Gizzard.

    You have got rural Churches in the mountains of Tennessee "dead on." Take a look at this picture of a rural Church at Tremont Tennessee on the Little River RR. Called the "House of Salvation" it is a replica or "reality" of your model.
    Dr Tom:thumb:

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  16. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    SML Sanders  creek and  the  north fork of  Crooked  Creek.jpg SML St Joseph's.jpg more progress

    This is starting to look like it belongs. I was going to work on the waterfalls, but it appears my acrylic modeling compound is at the club. once I get the creek good and dry I can add moss and vegetation to the rocks and hide some of the obvious gaps i the foam.

    When that mason gets here to finish the chimney, I'll need some front steps. I used to have some wood steps, but they were so rickety they were removed to keep old ladies from landing in the south fork of Crooked creek

    Bill Nelson
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  17. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    SML pink foam stone peir #2.jpg sml pink foam stone peir#1.jpg there used to be a road

    there used to be a primitive road going off the layout in front of the church. studying the scene made me miss it. I like to have a couple trucks around the sawmill, and there is no other option for a road into Perry's gizzard; it being a box canyon, so a road bridge is called for over Sander's creek.


    a bridge over the other creek is not going to be easily modeled, since the other bank isn't modeled, so I figured I'd add a stone pier, and model one of two spans across it.


    wanting fast progress on this central scene, I grabbed some pink foam leftover from the land form construction, and whipped out a stone pier, which was then painted with acrylic paint. as soon as the paint is dry, I'll tack it up there with some glue and some sewing pins, and I'll be part way to having a puny bridge.

    Bill Nelson
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  18. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    sml plater to foam  transition.jpg smlback side of St. J.jpg SNL  ST. J as viewed frm Gegaukayoosa.jpg Blending

    I have done some blending, stuffing tiny pieces of wet paper towel in the cracks between the foam scenery and the layout proper.

    after that I added some ground foam, and some ballast to make my primitive road all though I haven't secured all of the ground cover yet, I like the result so far I took two photos from odd angles, where a camera can be held, but your head can't reach.

    one shows the back side of the church, and the track going down to the Gizzard-Terrapin tunnel. since you can't see the layout at this angle , you can see spots in the rocks, where I missed crevices when I painted the rocks.

    the other odd angle photo I got by holding the camera up above the benchwork for Gegokayoosa (the 5th level- where the benchwork is a shelf, hanging off the sloped ceiling.) It shows a view showing Sander's gorge, and then the Gizzard in the background.


    I'm not done with this scene, but this whole exercise was an experiment with foam scenery, to answer the question, can I build with foam scenery and get results approximating the quality I get from carving plaster. I'm believing that the answer will be yes.

    while the foam strata is a little blocky, and less detailed in places than what I do with plaster, I was working quickly. with some more practice and different tools, I'm thinking this foam stuff has real potential.

    another photo shows the joint, on the left is the plaster, on the right is the foam, and a little lichen is stuffed in the crack to hide it, This is going to work!

    Bill Nelson
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  19. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    SML GZOVH#1.jpg SMLGZO#2.jpg SML S&PLMR CO int..jpg creeping upgrade.

    since I was in the neighborhood, I played around with some alternate building placements in the Gizzard (not much room to work with down there.

    I took some camera on the ceiling photos, and a photo of the Strong and Perry lumber company's sawmill with the roof off showing the interior detail I think the bulbs have burnt out in this building too.

    Bill Nelson
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  20. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

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    Oopps, I just got back from the choo choo club, and forgot to look for my acrylic modeling compound needed for the continuation of sander's gorge falls.

    Bill Nelsoin