Designing the Su-7, Su-9, Su-17, Su-22 and MiG-21

Discussion in 'Gallery & Designs' started by Paragon, Oct 5, 2007.

  1. Paragon

    Paragon Active Member

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    United Airlines version is uploaded, awaiting approval. The uncolored version should be up soon too.
  2. Paragon

    Paragon Active Member

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    Updates! I'm pleased to present the DC-10 in United Airlines colors:

    Attached Files:

  3. Lex

    Lex Dollmaker

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    Great build!! I just have to get this one!

    ... And why do I remember United Airlines flight 232...
  4. Paragon

    Paragon Active Member

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    Wow, I'd never heard of that flight before.

    Also, I've found a few small issues I should sort out before everyone tries to build it. Problems with the engines againg.
  5. Arjun

    Arjun Member

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    Very impressive! I've done a MiG-29 in the past, totally hand-made, and then a Su-27/Su-30MKI using rough engineering drawings and Metaseq and unfolded by Pepakura, but never got it this close. I'd like to know which tools you've used. I'm now learning to use 3ds Max and have finished the modelling module. That variable geometry puzzle has still been hard to solve.
  6. Paragon

    Paragon Active Member

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    Well, like I've said before, I use Photoshop and 3 or 4-view technical drawings. The design process is pretty different for each plane, and involves a lot of imagination. You have to imagine the shape you want the parts to end up making, and manipulate the drawings in such a way that they do. For example, making a cylinder fuselage involves taking the top, side and bottom views of that fuselage. I lay the three together (after removing anything sticking out of them), and overlap them where they show the same things. For example, the top view and side view of a cylindrical fuselage will inevitably show two different angles of details roughly 45 degrees to the view. I overlap these two areas of the two views, and then erase the edges to blend them together. Do this for the other side, and the bottom, and what you generally end up getting is a part that can be cut out and rolled to make a very close approximation to the real shape of that part of the plane. Conical shapes, and slightly conical cylinders are the same, the only difference is rotating them slightly to overlap properly.

    The most common tools I use in photoshop would probably be the three selection tools; rectangular marquee, lasso, and magic wand. The line tool and edit | transform tool are also very useful. The eraser of course is a necessity, and layers make it infinitely easier.

    When working from a technical drawing, I first use the magic wand to get rid of all the white, leaving just the lines of the drawing on a transparent background. This is crucial, because without that ability, I would not be able to properly align parts, because I would not be able to see them beneath the upper layers.

    Its all very difficult to describe without some visual aids...and this is not the first time I've been asked, so I think I will also document my next design. Hopefully I'll be able to take screenshots and save images of progress to use as pointers.

    Though...if my next design is the Catalina...I think I might wait for the one after that (too late to use the L-1011, I've already pretty much finished designing it).

    Anyway, the important things to remember are that you need a good imagination, especially when it comes to spatial orientation, and that my design process involves a lot of guessing. Another important tip is not to feel limited to only creating parts of your own. Feel free to take tips from other models that have similar shapes, and replicate them if you can.

    Last but not least; build! You'll never know how well your model will work until you try to put it together. I've been burned for not doing this in the past, by posting models that I came to realize were not actually complete because I needed to make significant changes to the shapes. Build prototypes (do yourself a favor and keep them white with black lines), and if you encounter issues, make changes to fix them.
  7. Arjun

    Arjun Member

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    Interesting...I'll make a note of the whole process. Currently, I make the models in 3-D graphics environment (playing by the rules of four sides only) to get surfaces curving only one way, and then unfold them using a plugin, scale them using a vector design facility and colour them with a photo editor. In the 3-D environment, getting the right curvature is a problem, as the model won't unfold with too many points. Once again, I'll say, I use Blender, whose unfolder stops in case of an overlap, although I've started using 3ds max recently in my new school.

    This method is quite interesting, but I started doing stuff in 3-D because I wanted better accuracy. I'll think about fusing both methods, and then upload something I've finished. You can look at two models I made earlier here.
  8. Arjun

    Arjun Member

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    Right now, I have a few issues-
    1. When I tried overlapping and stretching as you suggested, it looks (will look) just right from one plane, in this case, the XZ plane. From other views, however, it looks (will look) distorted, as the circumference will not match. I'd like to know how to fix that. For some parts which are not cylindrical, circumference calculations don't help.
    2. In the blueprints, some parts in some views are obscured, such as whatever is on the fuselage behind a wing. That leaves me with a puzzle of when and where to apply the textures.
  9. Paragon

    Paragon Active Member

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    Heh, yeah, its a whole lot of guessing. You have to remember the type of models I generally try to make, typically easier to construct, and not necessarily as accurate as they could be. Once I actually make that sort of tutorial, you'll probably get it.

    Meanwhile, expect some pictures of my latest model sometime soon.
  10. Lex

    Lex Dollmaker

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    And just to add, sometimes "trial and error" does help :D
  11. Arjun

    Arjun Member

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    My 707 isn't yet coming right, so I'll need some help on how the DC-10 engines and the wing-engine bridges (I don't know the name) were done. Moreover, I'm thinking of using that method of blend and stretch using 3-D model unfolds/unwraps as a reference.
  12. Paragon

    Paragon Active Member

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    Well how do you want to tackle it? You can download the newest DC-10 in United Airlines colors and take a look at the way I decided to design the engines. You could even just copy the parts over and use them yourself (though with some modification I'm sure, because they aren't the same shape, and mine might not be detailed enough). The United Airlines DC-10 even includes a little diagram of the engine structure for my model, if that helps.
  13. Paragon

    Paragon Active Member

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    Latest build:

    Attached Files:

  14. Nothing

    Nothing Longtime Member

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    i realy like this one!
  15. Nothing

    Nothing Longtime Member

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    im not up on my civi recognition which one is this?
  16. Dyna-Soar

    Dyna-Soar Member

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    Inspired by paragon's design style, I tried to design a few of my own. This is a prototype for an XF-103 model I'm working on.
    [​IMG]
  17. Stormeagle

    Stormeagle Member

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    Is that an L-1011 paragon? I like the way you built the tail engine on this one! Great job, once again...
  18. Paragon

    Paragon Active Member

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    Yes, thats the L-1011. It needs a little more work before release, but that shouldn't take too long.

    Dyna-Soar; that XF-103 is looking good so far. I was actually going to make it at some point, but I don't mind you beating me to it. Can't wait to see more.
  19. Arjun

    Arjun Member

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    I'd have to rack my brains a little to figure out how you'd get such a layout. In some blueprints, the existing flow lines are of a lot of help, but the task will be tougher when there are none- then I'll have to plot the flow myself. Since I'll be using unfolds of 3-D models as a base, the task will be easier.

    Now I have a few more questions-
    1. Do you totally ignore one (here, front) view? I try to get it in, and it's still tough, as I try to mark out cross-sections and flow lines, and some don't exist, making it tough. That is, if I cut out the 3-D modelling.
    2. Then there are the engine bridges and wingtips. Do you use flat parts? My earlier models used a lot of flat parts, until I started using Metaseq/Blender/MAX.
    I apologise for the frequent questions, but I wouldn't want to keep on printing till I get it right- just final, beta and possibly blueprints.
  20. Paragon

    Paragon Active Member

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    I do mostly ignore the front view, yes. The only time I can remember needing it was with the design of the DC-10, for the pattern of the engine turbines.

    I do currently use flat parts for the engine bridges. I haven't made any models with wingtips at seperate angles from the rest of the wing, if that's what you're asking about. I've only recently moved from the flat wings to 3-D wings, starting with the DC-10 and L-1011. The rest have used flat wings.