Designing the F2G

Discussion in 'Gallery & Designs' started by Willja67, Jan 31, 2006.

  1. Stev0

    Stev0 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2006
    Messages:
    2,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    Guess the attention to detail has paid off.
  2. Stev0

    Stev0 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2006
    Messages:
    2,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    Guess the attention to detail has paid off.
  3. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks guys for all the compliments. It truly is the food that fuels the desire to continue, that and seeing that all the hard work is actually going together like it should.

    Tim, thanks for that tip that will make life a lot easier.

    Not much done tonight because of a long work day and the fatigue that it brought on. A snag that might stop the project is the exhaustion of my tricolor print cartridge. I got a low ink level warning and have no idea how many more pages I can print before being forced to buy a new one. I think I have five pages left to print. This model will probably do for color cartridges what airwolf did for black!
  4. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks guys for all the compliments. It truly is the food that fuels the desire to continue, that and seeing that all the hard work is actually going together like it should.

    Tim, thanks for that tip that will make life a lot easier.

    Not much done tonight because of a long work day and the fatigue that it brought on. A snag that might stop the project is the exhaustion of my tricolor print cartridge. I got a low ink level warning and have no idea how many more pages I can print before being forced to buy a new one. I think I have five pages left to print. This model will probably do for color cartridges what airwolf did for black!
  5. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Although the frame does need some design work I found that the correct skinning procedure will obviate the need for stiffening. When I started the first time I started on the top, this morning while waiting to go to work I got impatient and just for the heck of it started on the bottom and it worked! Impatience finally yielded somthing positive! How often does that happen?

    [​IMG]

    It's not possible to see in this pic but there are quite a few wrinkles in the leading edge caused by the inadequate rolling of 110lb card stock, the tabs of the joining strip that is under about 65% of the inboard wing skin and my own inepttitude. Overall I'm fairly pleased with the way the front looks but it didn't come out with the same degree of wow factor that the back did.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    It's a little tough to see but on the last pic around the front portion of the gear bay you can see a fit problem. There are 2 actually. I went into rhino and measured the length of the curves and found a .088" difference! I think the way I designed the skin and the method of construction eliminated mabye a third of that but that still leaves nearly 1/16" of error so I'm going to tweak it by hand see if it works better on the right wing(the left is in it's final form).

    The issue I mentioned I think is barely visible if you look at the starburst and see that it doesn't line up, the second is indicated by a gap towards the leading edge. You can see a little sliver of white between the red edges. Hopefully that might disappear when I tweak the piece for the other problem but I think what I might do is to make the piece bigger than neccesary and allow room for trimming to accomodate some mistakes in the building process.
  6. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Although the frame does need some design work I found that the correct skinning procedure will obviate the need for stiffening. When I started the first time I started on the top, this morning while waiting to go to work I got impatient and just for the heck of it started on the bottom and it worked! Impatience finally yielded somthing positive! How often does that happen?

    [​IMG]

    It's not possible to see in this pic but there are quite a few wrinkles in the leading edge caused by the inadequate rolling of 110lb card stock, the tabs of the joining strip that is under about 65% of the inboard wing skin and my own inepttitude. Overall I'm fairly pleased with the way the front looks but it didn't come out with the same degree of wow factor that the back did.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    It's a little tough to see but on the last pic around the front portion of the gear bay you can see a fit problem. There are 2 actually. I went into rhino and measured the length of the curves and found a .088" difference! I think the way I designed the skin and the method of construction eliminated mabye a third of that but that still leaves nearly 1/16" of error so I'm going to tweak it by hand see if it works better on the right wing(the left is in it's final form).

    The issue I mentioned I think is barely visible if you look at the starburst and see that it doesn't line up, the second is indicated by a gap towards the leading edge. You can see a little sliver of white between the red edges. Hopefully that might disappear when I tweak the piece for the other problem but I think what I might do is to make the piece bigger than neccesary and allow room for trimming to accomodate some mistakes in the building process.
  7. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,677
    Likes Received:
    0
    Fit and great colors.....WoW!

    ok.......... HOW do you keep your scissors looking so good?

    The handles on mine look like two miles of bad road that somebody tried to fix with super-glue and scotch tape. Oh and I took off that dang plastic closer get in the freaking way thingy.......... yeah I know...........
    I've been called that before.......:grin:

    These are the *B*E*S*T* scissors made for our hobby!....... OK that is my opinion and I ain't changing it so don't try and tell me about any others I don't want to hear it.:grin:

    THANK YOU Gil! for putting me onto them!

    john
  8. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,677
    Likes Received:
    0
    Fit and great colors.....WoW!

    ok.......... HOW do you keep your scissors looking so good?

    The handles on mine look like two miles of bad road that somebody tried to fix with super-glue and scotch tape. Oh and I took off that dang plastic closer get in the freaking way thingy.......... yeah I know...........
    I've been called that before.......:grin:

    These are the *B*E*S*T* scissors made for our hobby!....... OK that is my opinion and I ain't changing it so don't try and tell me about any others I don't want to hear it.:grin:

    THANK YOU Gil! for putting me onto them!

    john
  9. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well John the scissors are brand new and they don't get much use anyway. Glad you like it. Hopefully it will sell well when it becomes available.
  10. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well John the scissors are brand new and they don't get much use anyway. Glad you like it. Hopefully it will sell well when it becomes available.
  11. silverw

    silverw Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Messages:
    392
    Likes Received:
    0

    Hi Will...

    It could be that just rotating the part on the sheet, before printing, might make it roll better. You would want the "grain" of the paper to be parallel with the leading edge. I think the grain usually runs the long-way, but I could be wrong. I've noticed that this becomes more important as the thickness of the card increases.
    ...Bill
  12. silverw

    silverw Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Messages:
    392
    Likes Received:
    0

    Hi Will...

    It could be that just rotating the part on the sheet, before printing, might make it roll better. You would want the "grain" of the paper to be parallel with the leading edge. I think the grain usually runs the long-way, but I could be wrong. I've noticed that this becomes more important as the thickness of the card increases.
    ...Bill
  13. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Bill I've never even considered grain when designing my stuff.
  14. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Bill I've never even considered grain when designing my stuff.
  15. silverw

    silverw Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Messages:
    392
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey Will....

    Well...Will....it's not the design... but how you place the parts on the sheet to be printed. Not all paper is the same. I have used some, that doesn't seem to have any grain,... but, the layers will seperate when you try to roll it!
    Others are quite different, in that they will roll nicely, one way, but, not the other!!... just cut a strip off the top of a sheet, and then a strip off the side of the same sheet. Try rolling those around a small mandrel, (2mm or <) and you will quickly see the difference!!

    Doesn't seem to be any comments about this...so, could be it's just My imagination!!
  16. silverw

    silverw Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Messages:
    392
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey Will....

    Well...Will....it's not the design... but how you place the parts on the sheet to be printed. Not all paper is the same. I have used some, that doesn't seem to have any grain,... but, the layers will seperate when you try to roll it!
    Others are quite different, in that they will roll nicely, one way, but, not the other!!... just cut a strip off the top of a sheet, and then a strip off the side of the same sheet. Try rolling those around a small mandrel, (2mm or <) and you will quickly see the difference!!

    Doesn't seem to be any comments about this...so, could be it's just My imagination!!
  17. Gil

    Gil Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,981
    Likes Received:
    0
    Paper Grain

    Will, Bill,

    Bill is correct, paper has a grain in which the long axis of the fiber generally (but not always) is aligned with the longest dimension. Aligning wings vertically will usually make curving and rolling the leading edge much easier. Bill's simple expedient of trying a roll in both axis is the best way to figure this out. I have this problem with Eric Johnson's Cessna 140 and the wing gave me real problems. It was too far into the build to back out so it was finished with a lot more effort than if the wing had been aligned vertically like the fuselage. Chip of Fiddler's Green took a survey several years ago and from it deciced to align things to account for it...,

    -Gil
  18. Gil

    Gil Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,981
    Likes Received:
    0
    Paper Grain

    Will, Bill,

    Bill is correct, paper has a grain in which the long axis of the fiber generally (but not always) is aligned with the longest dimension. Aligning wings vertically will usually make curving and rolling the leading edge much easier. Bill's simple expedient of trying a roll in both axis is the best way to figure this out. I have this problem with Eric Johnson's Cessna 140 and the wing gave me real problems. It was too far into the build to back out so it was finished with a lot more effort than if the wing had been aligned vertically like the fuselage. Chip of Fiddler's Green took a survey several years ago and from it deciced to align things to account for it...,

    -Gil
  19. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    I looked over the GPM Corsair kit that I have to see if they did it that way and they did. All the wings, tail fins, everything (even little stuff) that needs to be rolled or creased they aligned with the long axis of the paper, so I spent some of yesterday redoing the layout on just about every parts sheets to do the same thing. I also was able to condense the kit from 10 pages to 9.
  20. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    I looked over the GPM Corsair kit that I have to see if they did it that way and they did. All the wings, tail fins, everything (even little stuff) that needs to be rolled or creased they aligned with the long axis of the paper, so I spent some of yesterday redoing the layout on just about every parts sheets to do the same thing. I also was able to condense the kit from 10 pages to 9.