Designing the F2G

Discussion in 'Gallery & Designs' started by Willja67, Jan 31, 2006.

  1. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

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    Today's project has been the internal structure of the wing.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Note how thick the main and rear spars are(on the inboard section of wing).

    [​IMG]

    It's not very easy to see in the last pic but the intake for the oil cooler angles downward towards to the leading edge.
  2. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

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    Today's project has been the internal structure of the wing.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Note how thick the main and rear spars are(on the inboard section of wing).

    [​IMG]

    It's not very easy to see in the last pic but the intake for the oil cooler angles downward towards to the leading edge.
  3. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

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    Landing gear

    Due to bad weather (framing houses is miserable in strong wind and pelting rain) I got a few hours to devote to this project. There are still some parts of the tail gear and the hydraulic struts for the main gear doors that aren't done yet but that should be easy to do.

    The diagrams come from Rodney Williams resin F2G conversion kit. Mr David Pileggi a member of this forum bought 2 of the kits and graciously sent one of the cd's with the instructions to me. It has been tremendously useful as a reference.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I still need to add the flat panels between the tube frame members.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    I still have to design the scissor link and the mounting bracket between the gear leg and the small gear door and a few other small items but for the most part the mains are done.


    This was fairly straight forward to do now I just have to do the engine (big shudder) and cockpit(another big shudder) and hopefully after that I can start laying it out to export to corel draw.
  4. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

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    Landing gear

    Due to bad weather (framing houses is miserable in strong wind and pelting rain) I got a few hours to devote to this project. There are still some parts of the tail gear and the hydraulic struts for the main gear doors that aren't done yet but that should be easy to do.

    The diagrams come from Rodney Williams resin F2G conversion kit. Mr David Pileggi a member of this forum bought 2 of the kits and graciously sent one of the cd's with the instructions to me. It has been tremendously useful as a reference.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I still need to add the flat panels between the tube frame members.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    I still have to design the scissor link and the mounting bracket between the gear leg and the small gear door and a few other small items but for the most part the mains are done.


    This was fairly straight forward to do now I just have to do the engine (big shudder) and cockpit(another big shudder) and hopefully after that I can start laying it out to export to corel draw.
  5. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

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    How should I do the engine?

    I realize this is a somewhat difficult thread to comment on but I'm hoping you all will voice your opinion about this question. I'm going to be starting on the engine soon and was wondering how complete you would like it? Bear in mind the the R-4360 was a four row 28 cylinder engine with 7 magnetos in front of the cylinders(I'll post a pic of it sometime in the near future) so all told there would be 35 main objects to mount on the engine block.

    Rodney Williams who made the superb resin conversion kit only did 3 rows of cylinders (you really can't see the fourth) and I've seen card models that only had the front row of cylinders of a two bank radial and just a printed former for the 2nd bank. So what's the general consensus? All four banks or three or just 1. Maybe I should do a poll but for now please feel free to comment.
  6. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

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    How should I do the engine?

    I realize this is a somewhat difficult thread to comment on but I'm hoping you all will voice your opinion about this question. I'm going to be starting on the engine soon and was wondering how complete you would like it? Bear in mind the the R-4360 was a four row 28 cylinder engine with 7 magnetos in front of the cylinders(I'll post a pic of it sometime in the near future) so all told there would be 35 main objects to mount on the engine block.

    Rodney Williams who made the superb resin conversion kit only did 3 rows of cylinders (you really can't see the fourth) and I've seen card models that only had the front row of cylinders of a two bank radial and just a printed former for the 2nd bank. So what's the general consensus? All four banks or three or just 1. Maybe I should do a poll but for now please feel free to comment.
  7. NOBI

    NOBI Active Member

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    Hi Willja67,

    Very impress on your tail's landing gear...it look very complicated and really cool. i think you can release this beauty in 1/24 scale and that will be a big hit. i have GPM's F-4U in booklet and GPM id not look good as your. very great job
  8. NOBI

    NOBI Active Member

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    Hi Willja67,

    Very impress on your tail's landing gear...it look very complicated and really cool. i think you can release this beauty in 1/24 scale and that will be a big hit. i have GPM's F-4U in booklet and GPM id not look good as your. very great job
  9. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

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    Simple or decked out?

    Thanks Nobi I appreciate the praise. It's always nice to get compliments from another designer. I'm not sure though if it would come out good in 1/24 cause I'm not planning on doing it super detailed. There is a lot more that could be added (brake lines etc) that I don't want to do.

    This past weekend I was toying with the idea of stopping work on all the not totally necessary stuff (moving alierons, flaps etc) and just getting a bare bones model ready for distribution, but I decided that I've already come so far that I might as well go all the way. If I had done a no frills model the plan was to finish up the frills and release it later. Anybody got any opinions on that idea?
  10. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

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    Simple or decked out?

    Thanks Nobi I appreciate the praise. It's always nice to get compliments from another designer. I'm not sure though if it would come out good in 1/24 cause I'm not planning on doing it super detailed. There is a lot more that could be added (brake lines etc) that I don't want to do.

    This past weekend I was toying with the idea of stopping work on all the not totally necessary stuff (moving alierons, flaps etc) and just getting a bare bones model ready for distribution, but I decided that I've already come so far that I might as well go all the way. If I had done a no frills model the plan was to finish up the frills and release it later. Anybody got any opinions on that idea?
  11. shrike

    shrike Guest

    Well, to be completely accurate, you can't see all of the second row when cowled, let alone the third or fourth rows. In real life there is A LOT of tin inbetween the rows to direct cooling air through.
    For that matter even with the cowling removed it's hard to tell that there's an engine inside under all the cooling baffles, induction and exhaust pipes and oil pressure and return lines
  12. shrike

    shrike Guest

    Well, to be completely accurate, you can't see all of the second row when cowled, let alone the third or fourth rows. In real life there is A LOT of tin inbetween the rows to direct cooling air through.
    For that matter even with the cowling removed it's hard to tell that there's an engine inside under all the cooling baffles, induction and exhaust pipes and oil pressure and return lines
  13. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

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    Well........... I think I agree with Shrike.......... go with two rows. Anymore really is for the AR people in the world. I like how well a models looks, not neccessarily how acurate it is down to the last detail. But that's just me.

    Heck put the four rows in for people who want to build them and have it spaced out for those who don't.

    Is there really any difference between the rows, that they have to be designed individually, or can you design one row and replicated the other three? Did this question make sense??!!8)

    john
  14. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

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    Well........... I think I agree with Shrike.......... go with two rows. Anymore really is for the AR people in the world. I like how well a models looks, not neccessarily how acurate it is down to the last detail. But that's just me.

    Heck put the four rows in for people who want to build them and have it spaced out for those who don't.

    Is there really any difference between the rows, that they have to be designed individually, or can you design one row and replicated the other three? Did this question make sense??!!8)

    john
  15. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

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    Yes John your question made sense and to answer it all the rows are identical just rotated a few degrees from the one in front of it.

    Well Shrike is right that with all the bafflings in place you can't see very far in but if you don't have all those baffles you can see back to the third row.

    If you look in the vents that the exhaust stacks stick out of you can see the fourth row of cylinders (especially if the cowl flaps are open) but the stacks do hide a lot of that detail and given the small size it wouldn't be unforgiveable to leave them out. Anyway I was just trying to get a feel of the market. I'm getting close (all things are relative) to done with the actual designing and if anyone has a feature they'd really like to see please let me know.
  16. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

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    Yes John your question made sense and to answer it all the rows are identical just rotated a few degrees from the one in front of it.

    Well Shrike is right that with all the bafflings in place you can't see very far in but if you don't have all those baffles you can see back to the third row.

    If you look in the vents that the exhaust stacks stick out of you can see the fourth row of cylinders (especially if the cowl flaps are open) but the stacks do hide a lot of that detail and given the small size it wouldn't be unforgiveable to leave them out. Anyway I was just trying to get a feel of the market. I'm getting close (all things are relative) to done with the actual designing and if anyone has a feature they'd really like to see please let me know.
  17. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

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    R-4360

    Well here is the engine. It must be a behemoth in the memory on my computer as well as in reality cause it's starting to process slower. Of course I have the whole model in the the same file and that sure doesn't help. I think I'll split the file soon so that's not a problem.

    In any case to give those unfamiliar with the Monster Pratt & Whitney R-4360 Wasp Major a little background the engine has four banks of seven cylinders displacing 4360 cubic inches and developing(sources vary) some 3500 horse power. It weighs in somewhere around 3000 pounds and has 56 spark plugs and a timing series which had to be hand adjusted(the reason only the military used the engine).

    For use in the Super Corsair the firewall had to be moved 11 inches aft to get the CG in the correct spot. Also the wing and horizontal tail structures had to be beefed up and a 12 inch auxilliary rudder that only deflected when the flaps were lowered was was added to counteract the massive amounts of torque that the new engine produced. The Corsair already had a fairly large rudder and in his book Baa Baa Blacksheep Greg Boyington told of how a rookie pilot practicing landings in a regular corsair missed his approach and went to full power (big no no in a corsair) and the torque spun the aircraft all the way into the ground, so just imagine how much more the bigger engine produced!

    Now for the pics. The first is the BuNo, 88454 with the cowl off

    [​IMG]

    The next few show my attempts at making something that looks halfway decent.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The cylinder is made of only 4 parts(not counting pushrods) and I think it looks pretty good.

    [​IMG]

    This engine is fairly tricky to design due to the spiral shape. When I first tried copying the row of cylinders and rotating I found that the rocker arms interfered with one another and had to be rotated to clear each other. Due to the memory requirements I only have the magnetos and the first row of cylinders but hopefully it'll give an idea of how the engine will look. I don't think I'm even going to attempt the exhaust and intake manifolds in Rhino. Probably just as easy to scratch build.

    You will note in the pic of the real engine some stuff mounted on the bottom of the bell housing/crank case that I have yet to do. Just curious does anyone know what that's for?
  18. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

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    R-4360

    Well here is the engine. It must be a behemoth in the memory on my computer as well as in reality cause it's starting to process slower. Of course I have the whole model in the the same file and that sure doesn't help. I think I'll split the file soon so that's not a problem.

    In any case to give those unfamiliar with the Monster Pratt & Whitney R-4360 Wasp Major a little background the engine has four banks of seven cylinders displacing 4360 cubic inches and developing(sources vary) some 3500 horse power. It weighs in somewhere around 3000 pounds and has 56 spark plugs and a timing series which had to be hand adjusted(the reason only the military used the engine).

    For use in the Super Corsair the firewall had to be moved 11 inches aft to get the CG in the correct spot. Also the wing and horizontal tail structures had to be beefed up and a 12 inch auxilliary rudder that only deflected when the flaps were lowered was was added to counteract the massive amounts of torque that the new engine produced. The Corsair already had a fairly large rudder and in his book Baa Baa Blacksheep Greg Boyington told of how a rookie pilot practicing landings in a regular corsair missed his approach and went to full power (big no no in a corsair) and the torque spun the aircraft all the way into the ground, so just imagine how much more the bigger engine produced!

    Now for the pics. The first is the BuNo, 88454 with the cowl off

    [​IMG]

    The next few show my attempts at making something that looks halfway decent.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The cylinder is made of only 4 parts(not counting pushrods) and I think it looks pretty good.

    [​IMG]

    This engine is fairly tricky to design due to the spiral shape. When I first tried copying the row of cylinders and rotating I found that the rocker arms interfered with one another and had to be rotated to clear each other. Due to the memory requirements I only have the magnetos and the first row of cylinders but hopefully it'll give an idea of how the engine will look. I don't think I'm even going to attempt the exhaust and intake manifolds in Rhino. Probably just as easy to scratch build.

    You will note in the pic of the real engine some stuff mounted on the bottom of the bell housing/crank case that I have yet to do. Just curious does anyone know what that's for?
  19. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

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    14 foot prop

    The Super Corsair had a super sized prop to say the least. I admit to knowing very little about the aerodynamics of propellers and if anyone can tell me a way to make this more accurate I'm interested. First I started off making the hub. The 3 views that I've been working with didn't seem to have the hub quite right, meaning that it looked to narrow. As you can see in this pic the hub is roughly half the diameter of the opening in the front of the cowl.

    [​IMG]

    This pic should give a pretty good idea of what the hub actually looks like:

    [​IMG]

    And these show what I managed to design in Rhino:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I'm not sure how much of that detail will make into the actual model but it's there if I need it.

    The next task was the propeller blades and they were fairly simple. In his instructions for his resin conversion kit Mr Williams shows a picture of his prop jig and it shows that the tips of the blades are set at about a 15 degree angle from the plane of the prop disk. Since that angle is greater at the hub I decided to double it and went with a thirty degree angle. I drew lines at each of those angles and then placed the 15 degree one at the end of the prop radius and the thirty right next to the hub and then lofted them.

    The pic shows the lines in yellow before lofting:

    [​IMG]

    and the twist this caused:

    [​IMG]

    Then I projected the outline of the blade onto the surface and then lofted the half circle at the base of the blade(for the front of the blade) and the projected outline of the blade and that did pretty good for the front so I did the back side of the blade and arrayed it and you have this:

    [​IMG]

    If anyone has a better method please let me know. I know Leif published a mini tutorial but that was before the site was revamped and lost all the pics and I being a very visual learner (and to dumb to pay attention when he first posted it) can't remember everything:oops: .

    In any case that is all for this evening. Thankgoodness the end of design work is in sight:twisted:
  20. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

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    14 foot prop

    The Super Corsair had a super sized prop to say the least. I admit to knowing very little about the aerodynamics of propellers and if anyone can tell me a way to make this more accurate I'm interested. First I started off making the hub. The 3 views that I've been working with didn't seem to have the hub quite right, meaning that it looked to narrow. As you can see in this pic the hub is roughly half the diameter of the opening in the front of the cowl.

    [​IMG]

    This pic should give a pretty good idea of what the hub actually looks like:

    [​IMG]

    And these show what I managed to design in Rhino:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I'm not sure how much of that detail will make into the actual model but it's there if I need it.

    The next task was the propeller blades and they were fairly simple. In his instructions for his resin conversion kit Mr Williams shows a picture of his prop jig and it shows that the tips of the blades are set at about a 15 degree angle from the plane of the prop disk. Since that angle is greater at the hub I decided to double it and went with a thirty degree angle. I drew lines at each of those angles and then placed the 15 degree one at the end of the prop radius and the thirty right next to the hub and then lofted them.

    The pic shows the lines in yellow before lofting:

    [​IMG]

    and the twist this caused:

    [​IMG]

    Then I projected the outline of the blade onto the surface and then lofted the half circle at the base of the blade(for the front of the blade) and the projected outline of the blade and that did pretty good for the front so I did the back side of the blade and arrayed it and you have this:

    [​IMG]

    If anyone has a better method please let me know. I know Leif published a mini tutorial but that was before the site was revamped and lost all the pics and I being a very visual learner (and to dumb to pay attention when he first posted it) can't remember everything:oops: .

    In any case that is all for this evening. Thankgoodness the end of design work is in sight:twisted: