Designing the F2G

Discussion in 'Gallery & Designs' started by Willja67, Jan 31, 2006.

  1. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    After seeing the good work fimdan has been doing on his dewoitine thread I thought I might show you the work I've been doing on my F2G. I started this model before I had Rhino and it has been both blessing and cursing. Blessing because I have a lot of work already done that makes the job go quicker but cursing cause I have to redo a lot of work as well.

    You won't get quite the benefit from this thread that you perhaps might have if I had started it when I started the project, but feel free to ask any questions and I'll answer them as best I can.
  2. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Okay I hope you all will forgive my lack of technical expertise. I wanted to upload these images when I started the thread but couldn't quite figure it out.

    The first pic shows the overall progress,

    [​IMG]

    the second and third show my attempts at making the flaps functional.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    As can be imagined with those curved wings things can go wrong pretty easily and I've found that my drawings weren't the greatest and so I've had to go change a lot of stuff to make it more accurate.
    Now I'm working on making the structure for area in front of the flaps. More pics to follow
  3. fimdan

    fimdan Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey

    Thanks for showing us your work. I wish ImageShack were a bit faster.
    How did you do the tail and the rudder? I would appreciate a few pictures. I am sort of stuck on mine. I can make it developable but that requires me to have it divided into many small patches, which is not really good.

    Thanks again,

    FimDan
  4. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well Dan(can I call you Dan?),

    I don't really have a better method for doing my vertical tail than you have described. I managed to make it so most of the pieces fit together without any splits( except for the top leading edge of the rudder and the outside front corner of the horizontal stabilizers) and where it does split I figured that was the best way to go based on the way the actual aircraft is designed.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    You can kind of see if you look at the middle of the top portion of vertical stabilizer how I'm planning to do the rounded part of it. Just a bunch of little tabs that are bent together. I recently bought the GPM corsair kit and it's designer chose just to glue the edges together so it's pretty much a sharp edge and I didn't like that so I chose to do it this way.

    My screen capture of the horizontal tail doesn't show very well how I designed it so if you want I can show more detail.

    Here are the completed flaps. The first image shows the "ramps" for lack of a better word that help direct air from the underside of the wing over the top of the flaps when they are deployed.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The second obviuosly are the flaps themselves mounted on the wing. I have to say that I'm fairly pleased with the way they turned out.

    By the way Dan how do you put you screen captures in your posts? I save mine as jpegs and use imageshack obviously but I'd like to know how you do yours.
  5. yaniv

    yaniv Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2004
    Messages:
    1,087
    Likes Received:
    0
    like is old broter (air wolf) looks nice

    i just finsh the air wold copel of weeks ago and now whant to scall it for 33


    but i wait for the color virsion:)

    your work and your models are outstending

    thenks alot :)


    P.S
    b-17 :)
  6. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Yaniv for the kind words. I have to tell you theres not much chance at all of me doing a B-17 but that's not much loss as I know there are good ones on the market. My plan or vision of my future in this hobby is to design models of subjects that haven't been done yet.

    I decided to do a breakdown of the surfaces I used to make the horizontal and vertical tail surfaces in hopes that maybe it might be of use to Fimdan, so here they are.

    [​IMG]

    This is the fin and although the bottom two pieces could technically be made as a developeable single piece I find(poor technique on my part?) that whenever I attemtp something like that that the surface is rounded where there should be sharp corners so I split it into two surfaces and put them together after they are unrolled. The top piece can be joined with the rest but with splits in it.

    [​IMG]

    This shows the top of the vertical stabilizer broken down into its various parts. As I mentioned in an earlier post excepting the curved white piece in the upper right that has to be broken down further still to make the little tabs All these pieces fit together without splitting

    [​IMG]

    This shows the lower half of the rudder the aux rudder(F2Gs had this 12 in. addition to offset the torque of the much more powerful engine and it was automatically defelected to the right only when the flaps were lowered) and the fairing (bottom two pieces). The only special note is the fairing. I broke it into two pieces so that the forward part could follow the curve in the horizontal plane, and the aft part could be formed for the curve in the vertical plane coming down of the trailing edge of the rudder to the fuselage and have no split in it.

    [​IMG]

    A slight foul up on my part I lost the closeup I had of the exploded view of the elevator. In construction it is fairly similar to the rudder in that there are two parts (when finally layed out on paper) and the outboard part has some splits in it. They aren't quite like the ones on the rudder because of the way the fabric covered the frame of the elevator causes that edge to be sharp not rounded.

    You will however note that on the non moveable portion of the horizontal stab I used the same technique(I think I'll call it the zipper method) of little tabs to get around the corner.

    [​IMG]

    I hope this was helpful.
  7. fimdan

    fimdan Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks

    Thanks for all those images. I use photobucket.com. It is also a good site.
    I am having some doubts about dividing all these large surfaces into smaller patches. Did you try to build your model this way?
    The models that I have looked at seldom employed this type of construction. I wish I could see how professionals unroll those difficult surfaces.

    Thanks again

    FimDan
  8. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe it's just me and my lack of experience with Rhino but I've found that many surfaces that rhino won't unroll can be made to work in the real world. So I create the surface that I know should work and if rhino doesn't like it I break it down till it does.

    I mentioned one problem I frequently encounter in my last post and that is when I have sharp corners in the part I want to design. Rhino will essentially make a fillet between the two sides that make up the corner( the reason I made the fin in 3 parts when ideally it would have been just 2). Any advice from the more experienced would be appreciated.
  9. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Due to poor measuring on my part when I drew the five view into acad from the plans I used I had a lot of innaccuracies that I've been fixing the past little while so nothing substantial has been done till very recently.

    I've been working on the interior structure of the inboard portion of the wing(landing gear bays and oil cooler intakes), so here are a couple of pics of what I have accomplished.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    As always comments are appreciated.
  10. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    I found out too late that detail and scales plans for the Super Corsair are extremely innacurate. I have been trying to tell myself that it doesn't matter but I'm too big of a perfectionist and have spent the last several days reworking my plans.

    This pic show my original side view(in black) with the revised side view (yellow) superimposed to show the differences.

    [​IMG]

    The revised side view is a composite of three differnt sets of plans. Amazing that none of them got it quite right.

    This second pic shows my revised plan superimposed on Paul Matt's side view of the F4U.

    [​IMG]

    And the last shows my revised plans overlayed on a picture of the real thing.

    [​IMG]

    Not perfect but it's fianlly good enough for me.
  11. yaniv

    yaniv Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2004
    Messages:
    1,087
    Likes Received:
    0
    hout stending work

    is thet going to be a free 1 like the airwolf?or copyright 1?

    p.s
    b17...b17...b17...b17 :)
  12. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    I intend to sell it.
  13. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gull wings

    As with the fuselage the wings are being redesigned from the ground up. The biggest innacuracy was the shape of the airfoil and although I cringe at the thought of redoing the flaps and everything else I want the model to be accurate so I knew I couldn't leave such errors in the model.

    In previous posts I made some allusions to the fact that all the plans of Corsairs I have aren't very accurate. That needs to be corrected slightly. Paul Matt's drawings are very well done and if there are innacuracies I have yet to find them. That said I traced the airfoils from his F4U1-A plans.

    [​IMG]

    The red line on the top airfoil is to allow room for the oil cooler.

    [​IMG]

    This shows the main spar with the root airfoil and the outer panel airfoil in place. The wing tapers somewhat from the root to the outer panel and I needed to extrapolate the intermediate airfoils so this is what I did:

    [​IMG]

    Note the yellow line in the previous pic. I straightened that out and placed the airfoils at either end then used cutting planes(in blue) to find the exact shapes I wanted.

    [​IMG]

    Then I put the extrapolated airfoils in place and rotated them so that they were perpendicular to the top of the spar at their respective locations.

    [​IMG]

    Now the sections inbetween can be lofted.

    That's it for now but there is much more to be done.
  14. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Is this interesting enough?

    Due to the limited response from all you guys I was wondering if I should just abandon this thread? If you guys are interested I'll keep it going but otherwise I have other things to do with the time I use to document this project (actually working on it). So if you want this to continue let me know.
  15. NOBI

    NOBI Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2004
    Messages:
    1,009
    Likes Received:
    0
    willja67,

    keep up this great thread continue, no response does not mean no people interest. i follow your thread and very excite when you post new message.
  16. Gil

    Gil Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,981
    Likes Received:
    0
    Wilja67,

    I am following your build and share your concern with the seeming lack of enthusiasm shown by the "no comments"...,

    -Gil

    P.S. I also have a design in process. I've found it's better to wait until it is done to reveal it. This prevents the usual design "knots" that hold up the overall process until they're solved.
  17. Gil

    Gil Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,981
    Likes Received:
    0
    This page is superflous and reserved for future use. Please deny it's existence till then...,

    -Gil
  18. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well Gil I think that seeing the knots and learning from others mistakes is invaluable. As they say a smart guy learns from his own mistakes but a brilliant guy learns from others and an insane guy just keeps making the same mistakes over and over again(I must be borderline insane:twisted: ).

    ps I'll continue the thread.
  19. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,677
    Likes Received:
    0
    Will,

    Please continue.............. I've been watch and plead "no contest" to the "No Comments" Not knowning the software makes it hard to comment without looking............ ummmmmmm kinda dumb. But I'm sorry, I should have made comments of encouragement:oops:

    It's looking great and I can not believe how much effort is involved! I have always took line drawings for face value:cry: ........... I now know better.

    john
  20. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks guys for the comments.

    Next installment on the the wing,

    This first shot is what the wing looks like after lofting looking at the trailing edge. My personal opinion: EXTREMELY UGLY!!!

    [​IMG]

    This bye the way is the way the GPM kit is done. Obviously this does not do justice to the very sexy curve that exists on the real thing and must be fixed. So I chopped off the trailing edge at the flap line and drew in a curve (still subject to editing) for the trailing edge,

    [​IMG]

    then lofted it and you see the result,


    [​IMG]

    Perhaps still in need of tweaking but much better than the original.