[construction report] Supermarine Spitfire Mk. VIII (KS 5)

Discussion in 'Aircraft & Aviation' started by Swinger, Feb 11, 2005.

  1. Tonino

    Tonino Member

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    I propose to establish a new title: "The best cardmodeler of the year" or something like " The cardmodeler which works seem to be made of anything but paper".

    And my vote goes to Swinger. You are a virtuoso :D

    Many compliments.

    Leif, it comes to my mind a very interesting consideration you made some days ago (I don't remember where... and this is absolutely in theme with this consideration... :D)

    Here is a lot of treasures, in terms of techniques, tricks, methods, all scattered around in many and many threads about specific subjects, but they all have great value as general reference material.
    The specific area of this great site (Articles) has some material but I think it should be tried some kind of "rediscover" for all the great stuff that is around. You come in help to us very often, recalling and linking to many of the past threads. But we cannot ask Leif all the time... You have to build too :wink:

    So why don't put a sort of "intralinks" section, a sort of repository where anyone can put a cross reference to material previously published here in Cardmodels.net that can be of general interest (exactly like this wonderful Swinger's technic). This should be organized in categories, exactly like the forums, but all entries are just links to other part of the site. Once grown it could became a great reference, especially for the new cardmodelers...

    What do you think guys?

    Tonino
  2. jrts

    jrts Active Member

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    Hi Swinger

    Another fine job, if this is a fun build I will have to stick signs on mine "This is a Model of a Crash Landed ------" :lol:

    Like the tip with the mouse, Never thought of that!!
    One question how do I stop my sons mouse from struggling while I roll it, and how do I get the fur out of the glue after rolling it :lol:

    All joke aside, some very good tips for all types of models 8)

    Thanks and I look forward to the next leason

    More as soon as you can

    Rob
  3. jasco

    jasco Member

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    Thanks for taking the time to explain your process. You answered exactly my question. I greatly admire the level of neatness and quality of fit you achieve. Do you sand the paper before you glue it? Your fuselages appear to be made out of one piece of paper. How do you get the seams to be so unobtrusive? ':shock:'
  4. Texman

    Texman Guest

    Yes, I too concur, it is the work of an artist.

    Also, to expound on something Leif said about using a thinner
    paper for the fillets. Being I build small scale, that is exactly what
    I do. I will print one copy of the model on cardstock, and another
    on regular printer paper. This gives me the thinner paper for fillets,
    and provides a convenient outline for attaching strips. Also makes
    rolling parts (engine cylinders, landing gear, etc) a third bonus.

    If it helps someone, it is worth the time.

    Ray
  5. lunarhighway

    lunarhighway Member

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    thanks a lot for the explanation! it really shows you have great skills for building models... of course the end result already showed that :) i'll rememer this little tutorial next time i build a model...
  6. bfam4t6

    bfam4t6 Member

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    Swinger,
    I am stunned :shock: . I don't think it could possibly look more realistic. It, by all means, does not look like paper. Also, your techniques will be extremely helpful to me. Up until now, I have never sanded the edges of the paper because the paper would fray and the edge would end up looking "hairy". I had only sanded down the cardboard formers when they needed it, not the paper pieces. Silly me, I never even thought of putting glue on the edge and THEN sanding it. In your pictures the paper did not fray at all! Leif is absolutley right......if one didn't know better, your model would look like it was 1/16 scale!

    If it is not obvious to you already, you are greatly respected here. You have taken the hobby far beyond what I expected anyone could get out of it. My best wishes for the rest of you build (as if you need it :lol: ), and I cannot wait to see and learn about your next techniques.
  7. billmcc

    billmcc Member

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    Swinger,

    Were the parts used to make the rudder and stabilizer move provided in the model kit, or did you custom make these parts?

    Thank you for sharing your techniques! I learn something new each time I read one of your construction posts.
  8. Swinger

    Swinger Member

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    Leif, Gil - thank you for the information on varnishing, I'll try to spray in a warmer place (that one was in a garage, maybe 16 degrees Celcius).

    Jasco, in order to make the seams less visible, you have to cut the parts very carefully and sometimes remove the black outlines (for example in this model they just are too wide, and it doesn't look realistic). However, for me there's still quite a lot to practice; please take a look at the fuselage of Piter's Bf 109 in this thread. This is an ideal! Piter said that he cuts the parts extremely carefully, and this is the main problem. Of course the model has to be designed very accurately - this Bf 109 is from Haliński, so it speaks for itself... Piter also said that he had applied some thinned nitric varnish on the white side before glueing, and a lot of acrylic varnish on the coloured side after glueing.

    Texman and Leif, that's a really good idea, the one with the thinner paper. I build already-printed models, so I can't use this technique, but for home-printed models this will surely work! :)

    Thank you a lot (and yes, I do need your wishes ;-) ), though you must know that before I found the cardmodel sites about two years ago, my models had been rather poor. Then I started to sniff in various threads, learning many techniques... Now I'm showing you many methods derived from the builds of such modellers as Wujek Andrzej, Bundy, Gutes, Piter, Dyzio and many others. Only some of the methods have been "discovered" or improved by myself! So giving me thanks, please remember that everything I do, I owe to the others, thanks to forums like this one! :)

    Bill, all the parts apart from the cockpit are original. I just divided the stabilizers on two parts (I separated the rudder and the elevators).

    I tried to make something similar on Kartonwork, but I gave up. It couldn't have been made by a single man with a limited amount of free time. ;-) Take a look, it was just an edited post with links to various construction reports covering some useful methods: http://www.kartonwork.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2315



    And one more thing - in my Ju 88 thread on Kartonwork we had a discussion about the sanded edges etc. Windus said there that it is good to sand (or angle-cut) also the "lower" edges of the fuselage segments - like on my drawing here (wręga=former, sklejka=connector strip, tu sklejone=here glued - the black triangle is glue). I used this technique in Spitfire for the first time, and it really makes the seams in the lower part of the fuselage less visible.

    [​IMG]
  9. barry

    barry Active Member

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    spitfire

    Swinger

    Great write up and tips

    Thanks

    barry
  10. Leif Oh

    Leif Oh Member

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    I think linking to a few of the images of the Bf109 on the "black list" is in order, to show what Swinger is talking about. Here's a sample of the work by Piter, "the master's master":

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    How's that for eliminating "the bane of the paper modeler" (abrupt segment joints), as Gil would have called it!

    And if you aren't convinced, here's another one:

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    Now, Swinger, if you could see your way of telling us just a little bit more about how this could possibly be achieved by us mere mortals, that would be greatly appreciated. The acrylic I'm familiar with (note: obviously matte, on the fuselage at least, to very good effects!), and strongly support, but what is "nitric" varnish, and what does it do on the inside?

    Sanding the edges at an angle truly is a new and completely original tip!

    Leif
  11. jasco

    jasco Member

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    I actually know nothing of what Swinger uses, but back in my days of stick and tissue airplanes, I used nitrate dope with plasticizer in it to seal the tissue, provide some minimal moisture-resistance and plastic-like toughness to the tissue. Maybe it would work the same way here.
  12. Swinger

    Swinger Member

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    Well, in fact... Let's call this varnish just "nitro". It is a lacquer based on nitrocellulose.

    Now I'll translate what Piter said in whole that thread:
    http://konradus.com/forum/read.php?f=1&i=60063&t=60063

    By the way, Piter has put there new fotos of Bf 109 (and marvellous scratch-built 1:25 Fokker E.V in another thread) today. :)

    1. About the green-black propeller and the green-brown cowling (parts of PZL P-11c):
    - the parts must be cut formed very carefully. If you fail, chemistry won't help you. If you do it well, the chemistry (a few layers of lacquer put in the various moments of building) will help a lot.
    - the cowling was the most difficult here. Firstly, the front ring was formed by gently "pushing" with a rounded object on a pad made of 2mm cardboard. The part must not fold on the white side. The card divided into two layers (it was of a poor quality), so the coloured layer was treated with nitro ("Capon") for the first time. The whole canopy was being formed for 4 hours. Then it was hardened with Capon. You must be careful with Capon, because it is quite aggressive (as far as I know, it can react with some non-water based glues). Lastly, a very thin (that's important!) layer of transparent semi-matt Humbrol was put with an airbrush (Piter didn't write how he was putting the nitro on, but I think that with airbrush, too).
    - the rest of the parts mentioned were done in a simiar way. The spaces between the parts of the spinner were "flooded" with quite a lot (relatively, of course) of Capon.

    2. The Piter's answer to my demonstration of the Spitfire experiment (method used in Bf 109 and Tiger tank):
    - once I used the acrylic spray, it was superb. I had a slightly different method. The elements were being soaked with Capon from the white side. After the parts had been formed and glued, I was spraying a lot of the acrylic varnish, not caring about the amounts of lacquer, because somehow it was vanishing, leaving a thin semi-gloss layer on the surface. Then a very thin layer of matt varnish, and that was it.
    - the black parts in the tank's barrel were painted with an airbrush. The "blob" on the Bf's cowling was made in a similar way (a lot of forming, CA hardening, painted with an airbrush)

    And that's all basically. Piter later underlined again that it is very important to cut and form very carefully.
  13. Swinger

    Swinger Member

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    Yesterday I've made the right wing (using the same method as in the stabilisers). I have added the gear bay.

    Originally the outer parts of the wing were designed to be glued to the wing's central part with "two formers (ribs)" method. I've changed it into "one former + a joining strip" method.

    I think that the central girder should be longer. It would make it easier to set the wing at the proper angle. I glued the lower part first (note that originally the lower and upper part of the wing were linked together), then I added the girder, and finally I covered it with the upper part.

    The wing-fuselage linker and the aileron will be added later.

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  14. Jim Krauzlis

    Jim Krauzlis Active Member

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    Hi, Swinger! :D

    A superb series of photos and narratives to explain your outstanding method of build. I am very thankful for your sharing so many brilliant tips and techniques and only hope I someday get to the point that I can build half as good as you. :?

    I just caught up on the earlier posts and the work done on the cowling and Me109 is just plain amazing! :shock: Beautiful and very informative posts, my friend! Thanks!!

    Cheers!

    Jim

    P.S. I like your new avatar! :wink:
  15. Swinger

    Swinger Member

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    The wings are ready. The following phase will be adding some "retouch" and experimental varnishing of the whole model. Then I'll be able to add the rest of the parts.

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    Unfortunately, I spoilt the parts linking the wings to the fuselage. The main reason was my recklessness... Firstly, the central part of the wing has, umm, folded down and that's why there are slits between this part and the "wing-fuselage linkers" (what's the English name for this part of an aircraft?). It happened so because I haven't added additional ribs into the central part of the wing (does it have a specific name?). Secondly, I didn't perform enough sanding on the upper edges of the right "linker". Then, I was trying to fill the edge with putty and paint it, but the colour wasn't perfect. I knew this, but I was too lazy to mix a better colour. :) Oh well, this is just an experiment. ;-) The left side looks much better.

    BTW, I think these "linkers" should have a different look in their front part.

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    Coolers (the net comes from some ribbon):

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    Zonk ;-) :

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    With another model, finished a week ago (my thesis) ;-) :

    [​IMG]
  16. Leif Oh

    Leif Oh Member

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    Very nice finish, matt or semi-matt acrylic? Very satin, silky look. By the way, I think the term you are looking for is "fairing" (in this case "wing fairings"), a part that makes the transition between two other parts smoother.

    And, oh, congratulations on your thesis! What is it about, if I may be so bold?

    Leif
  17. Swinger

    Swinger Member

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    Fairings... Thanks, Leif. :)

    In fact it is still the same, errr, acrylic glossy finish - I haven't changed anything yet (no additional spraying). :) It looks differently in daylight (like on the last photos) and in the incandescent light (the "glossy spots" tend to appear then). I think I'll finish it with the same acrylic glossy spray first, and then (or maybe only...) with special matt varnish used by artists to preserve their paintings (from colour-fading, too). I'm going to buy it on Monday, so then I'll be able to show the final look. I think it will make the model safe from dust, light and some mechanical damage.

    And the thesis is a legal analysis of the taxation applicable to companies' mergers, divisions and transformations. I'm going to defend it on the April, 12. :)
  18. Leif Oh

    Leif Oh Member

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    OK. Still a beautiful finish, looks more satin than glossy from here. Probably because you sprayed it, instead of brushing it. What do you use for spraying - anything affordable?

    On the thesis - will keep my thumbs crossed on the 12th! (And I can understand the frequent need for some cardmodeling, to get away from it all, at least from time to time...).

    Leif
  19. jrts

    jrts Active Member

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    Hi Swinger

    It goes with out saying amazing build 8)

    Keep it up mate learning a lot from your write up on this, thanks

    Rob
  20. Gil

    Gil Active Member

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    Swinger,

    I sympathize with your mention of matching paint color. It's much harder than most realize. One question, do you use a limited number of colors to derive the color or do you try and match the color as closely as possible with a purchase from the art supply and make minor adjustments as necessary to finally match the color? I now use the limited color pallete and have gotten a lot better at matching colors with practice but it still can test your patience.

    Best regards for a good build, Gil