carbon fiber

Discussion in 'Tips, Tutorials & Tools' started by lizzienewell, Sep 13, 2005.

  1. lizzienewell

    lizzienewell Member

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    I've been making a models of a flying boat with foldable wings. My current versions have a 6 inch fusslage but I want to eventually make it 300 % bigger. The wing is made or parallelograms. Right now I'm using styrene strips as the wing struts. I drill through them and attach each wing rib with wire pins so that each wing rib pivots.
    I doubt that styrene will work in a bigger scale. It doesn't come large enought and I doubt that it's strong enough.
    I bought some carbon fiber strips to use but found out that you must drill and cut them underwater to avoid breathing the fibers. Hmm drilling the holes for the ribs seems like it will be difficult and I expect carbon fiber isn't good for moving parts.
    I'm now thinking of putting the holes in the styrene and then rienforcing the stryene with carbon fiber.
    Any ideas on this? Does anyone have experience wiht carbon fiber?
    I know this isn't paper but most of model is card stock.

    I've attached a photo of the current wing structure.

    Lizzie

    Lizzie
  2. lizzienewell

    lizzienewell Member

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    I've been making a models of a flying boat with foldable wings. My current versions have a 6 inch fusslage but I want to eventually make it 300 % bigger. The wing is made or parallelograms. Right now I'm using styrene strips as the wing struts. I drill through them and attach each wing rib with wire pins so that each wing rib pivots.
    I doubt that styrene will work in a bigger scale. It doesn't come large enought and I doubt that it's strong enough.
    I bought some carbon fiber strips to use but found out that you must drill and cut them underwater to avoid breathing the fibers. Hmm drilling the holes for the ribs seems like it will be difficult and I expect carbon fiber isn't good for moving parts.
    I'm now thinking of putting the holes in the styrene and then rienforcing the stryene with carbon fiber.
    Any ideas on this? Does anyone have experience wiht carbon fiber?
    I know this isn't paper but most of model is card stock.

    I've attached a photo of the current wing structure.

    Lizzie

    Lizzie
  3. barry

    barry Active Member

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    Hi Lizzie

    Is balsa wood any use ?

    barry
  4. barry

    barry Active Member

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    Hi Lizzie

    Is balsa wood any use ?

    barry
  5. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

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    Carbon fibre is generally horrible to work with. It wrecks cutting tools, makes horrible dust and unless you have some serious industrial facilities, I'd avoid it. Barrys suggestion of balsa is good, or if you need something a bit stronger any decent close-grained wood would be fine. Hey, if it was good enough for the Wright Brothers! What is the requirement? Strength? Flexibility? Lightness? Ease of working? Maybe this sort of shape could be CNC'd from sheet stock. Alternatively, stack a number together, on couple of false spars of dowel. shape the lot as one block, then seperate. Good way of making sure they are all the same shape! I'll look out some aeromodelling links to explain this in more detail.

    Hope this helps,

    Tim P
  6. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

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    Carbon fibre is generally horrible to work with. It wrecks cutting tools, makes horrible dust and unless you have some serious industrial facilities, I'd avoid it. Barrys suggestion of balsa is good, or if you need something a bit stronger any decent close-grained wood would be fine. Hey, if it was good enough for the Wright Brothers! What is the requirement? Strength? Flexibility? Lightness? Ease of working? Maybe this sort of shape could be CNC'd from sheet stock. Alternatively, stack a number together, on couple of false spars of dowel. shape the lot as one block, then seperate. Good way of making sure they are all the same shape! I'll look out some aeromodelling links to explain this in more detail.

    Hope this helps,

    Tim P
  7. lizzienewell

    lizzienewell Member

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    Thank you Tim,
    The stack and drill to get the same shapes is an idea that I will use no matter what material I go with.

    I've got a drill press and would like to use it since I can place holes more accurately with it. I suppose I can fill a tupperwear or ziplock container with water make a wooden jig that fits inside it and then drill through water if I go with carbon fiber. I'll have to check on how long the pieces will be and get a long enough water trough.
    I also have a wet saw for tile. Would this work?

    I'm attracted to the carbon fiber for the strength and because the craft that I am designing if it were for real would have carbon fiber. If it were for real the craft would be built in an nanotech assembler tank using seawater for a sorce of silica and probably carbon from the air. I don't have a nanotech assembler tank so I've got to make do with saws and drills.
    I don't mind sacrificing a few drill bits, but I don't want to take health risks.

    Lizzie
  8. lizzienewell

    lizzienewell Member

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    Thank you Tim,
    The stack and drill to get the same shapes is an idea that I will use no matter what material I go with.

    I've got a drill press and would like to use it since I can place holes more accurately with it. I suppose I can fill a tupperwear or ziplock container with water make a wooden jig that fits inside it and then drill through water if I go with carbon fiber. I'll have to check on how long the pieces will be and get a long enough water trough.
    I also have a wet saw for tile. Would this work?

    I'm attracted to the carbon fiber for the strength and because the craft that I am designing if it were for real would have carbon fiber. If it were for real the craft would be built in an nanotech assembler tank using seawater for a sorce of silica and probably carbon from the air. I don't have a nanotech assembler tank so I've got to make do with saws and drills.
    I don't mind sacrificing a few drill bits, but I don't want to take health risks.

    Lizzie
  9. 46rob

    46rob Member

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    Have you thought of using split bamboo for your parts? It's incredibly strong for it's size and weight, and can be worked with good sharp woodworking tools. It's grain is very straight and can be split into quite small strips.
  10. 46rob

    46rob Member

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    Have you thought of using split bamboo for your parts? It's incredibly strong for it's size and weight, and can be worked with good sharp woodworking tools. It's grain is very straight and can be split into quite small strips.
  11. shrike

    shrike Guest

    And you can always refer to the bamboo (or wood FTM) as 'a unidirectional linear composite of cellulose fibres locked in a lignin matrix'
  12. shrike

    shrike Guest

    And you can always refer to the bamboo (or wood FTM) as 'a unidirectional linear composite of cellulose fibres locked in a lignin matrix'
  13. charliec

    charliec Active Member

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    I might be accused of being picky but in your design you've got a single rib
    on the hinge line of your "wings". Unless your skinning material has the properties of a rubber sheet aren't you going to need a rib on each side of the hinge?

    Perhaps there are ideas in the wing folding arrangements of carrier borne aircraft you could exploit.

    I'd go with bamboo - a great material. Although you could design the ribs in card as shaped I-beams like real aircraft ribs - this probably would give you the strength you need even at larger sizes.

    Regards,

    Charlie
  14. charliec

    charliec Active Member

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    I might be accused of being picky but in your design you've got a single rib
    on the hinge line of your "wings". Unless your skinning material has the properties of a rubber sheet aren't you going to need a rib on each side of the hinge?

    Perhaps there are ideas in the wing folding arrangements of carrier borne aircraft you could exploit.

    I'd go with bamboo - a great material. Although you could design the ribs in card as shaped I-beams like real aircraft ribs - this probably would give you the strength you need even at larger sizes.

    Regards,

    Charlie
  15. CharlieB

    CharlieB Member

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    A good source for carbon fiber spars is the Kite Studio in Allentown, PA. They have an on-line catalog and orders are filled timely.

    The web site is www.kitebuilder.com

    CharlieB
  16. CharlieB

    CharlieB Member

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    A good source for carbon fiber spars is the Kite Studio in Allentown, PA. They have an on-line catalog and orders are filled timely.

    The web site is www.kitebuilder.com

    CharlieB
  17. mwangarch

    mwangarch New Member

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    Basswood is a good material. It's soft enought to cut with x-acto tools. Spruce would work but is not quite as workable. Both are lightweight materials.

    You could also purchase aircraft grade plywood in thicknesses down to 1/32". 1/16"-1/8" would probably suite your needs best.

    All of this would be available at a hobby shop specializing in control line or RC model aircraft.
  18. mwangarch

    mwangarch New Member

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    Basswood is a good material. It's soft enought to cut with x-acto tools. Spruce would work but is not quite as workable. Both are lightweight materials.

    You could also purchase aircraft grade plywood in thicknesses down to 1/32". 1/16"-1/8" would probably suite your needs best.

    All of this would be available at a hobby shop specializing in control line or RC model aircraft.
  19. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

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    What about using aluminum stock? You can get it in various thicknesses, and it will still be light weight. Check your nearest hobby store.

    john
  20. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

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    What about using aluminum stock? You can get it in various thicknesses, and it will still be light weight. Check your nearest hobby store.

    john