Canadian train crew reduction:US next?

[Virginian]

To all railroaders and raifans and anybody else who cares about train safety... check out George's post in General talk; 'shooting the Breeze' post of 2-8-01
This might be the beginning of a trend that could affect a lot of people in tragic ways..
VGN

 

[Dave Flinn]

I agree with VGN. Check this out, and offer any solutions, if you can.

Thanks, Virginian, for making the folks on this forum aware, as they may not all read the other one.

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Dave Flinn, Northeast Regional Vice President, NRHS
National Director, Cornell Chapter, NRHS
Life Member NMRA, NER, NFR,
Danbury Railway Museum

 

[Gregg Mahlkov]

The only people who miss cabooses are railfans and model railroaders. Professional railroaders hated them. The slack action was incredible and they were the major source of train crew injuries. This is why they were phased out, not for any saving in crew cost. Remember the BQ-23-7?
As a professional railroader, there are times that three men are needed to operate a train, especially if it has major switching duties en route. At other times, two men suffice. And, yes, there are limited times where one man can safely operate a train, especially if equipped with a remote control belt pack.
In truth, it is between management, the unions, and the Federal Railroad Administration (OSHA cannot interfere with railroads, thank God!) to decide how to man trains on the Class I railroads, and a bunch of foamers running around making threats sure won't help matters any! They just might convince a few more shippers to convert to truck, and then they will just have a few less trains to drool over.

 

[Virginian]

Gregg,
You have a couple of good points, but, hey!, there's no reason to start name callin'(

) when some fellas are concerned for the safety of others...It was train workers(ie.: people who work ON Real trains ), after all, who brought this to the attention of George in the first place.
'I appreciate your information and opinion, as a 'railroader', but I don't appreciate your attitude. So.. I think I'll stick with the 'foamers' from now on...at least they seem to be polite, patient, kind, civil and appreciative.

AS far as OSHA was concerned...I confess my ignorance,and I realize it didn't function as intended, and caused more problems for workers than it helped ...management and politics ruined the whole agency,as far as I can tell...The problem is really about where to draw the 'bottom line', as far as I'm concerned.
'Virginian'


[This message has been edited by Virginian (edited 02-10-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Virginian (edited 02-10-2001).]

 

[George]

Gregg, you're correct on how the demise of the caboose came about, but that was years ago and times have changed.

The best civil word to describe the interior and suspension of a caboose is "spartan". It was a rough ride, they were not kept clean and it provided basic shelter from the elements with a source of heat, and if they were lucky, a stove. I don't recall any form of refrigeration.

commercial aircraft have a pilot and a co pilot to prevent the plane from going down should the pilot croak enroute. Why should hundreds of tons of anything be supervised by only one person, and how can that be done safely with something moving through large and small communities?

I'm not romanticising the caboose, but there needs to be some kind of substitute so that crew on both ends of such long trains travelling long distances can monitor the operation of such trains safely..

George.

 

[wt&c]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gregg Mahlkov:
The only people who miss cabooses are railfans and model railroaders.</font>

you are wrong, you oughtta ask someone who worked on the railroads when cabooses were in their prime, they really didn't mind them, and missed them when the cabooses were removed from trains.If you were on cabooses during their prime, excuse me

. If not, you've got it all wrong

.[/B][/QUOTE]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">A bunch of foamers running around making threats sure won't help matters any!</font>

I with you on that one.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">They just might convince a few more shippers to convert to truck,</font>

In railroadese, that's foul language

RESPECTFULLLY, wt&c a.k.a."PAT"



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NARA Member #8
The Appalachian & Atlantic Railroad
"QUALITY at WORK with SAFTEY in MIND"

 

[George]

WT&C is correct about who misses cabooses.

The caboose was shelter, and often used to drop off and pickup track workers doing odd jobs. Now if such a thing is done, they all have to cram into the cab.

Organizing foamers into protestors isn't the solution, just look at Seattle this past year. I say crack people like that over the head.

If this crew reduction nightmare goes through, there'll be one more empty seat in the cab too!

George.

 

[Virginian]

George, re: "crack people like that over the head"
Sorry you feel that way about non-violent protest...And I emphasize non-violent. I think I'll stick to my modeling and leave this topic alone...I think you fellas completely misunderstand what I was suggesting. If you ever read the details of my replies to your original topic, you might understand that my only intent was to offer what I could to help train crews and the communities they serve be safe.
As far as Seattle was concerned, check your facts before you blow next time. The great majority of "protesters" were well within the law, non-violent, and had permits to legitimatly voice their concerns re: WTO policies, practices and plans for OUR future. A very few 'headwhacker' types fomented an over reaction by the Seattle Police. Of course, the news only really covered the "rioting protesters"
Well, that's my last post in this neck of the woods. All the best to you.
VGN

[This message has been edited by Virginian (edited 02-16-2001).]

 

[grandmesa]

OK, what happened? First we're talking about crew reductions and caboose elimination (both of which has happened already in the States), then it degenerates into a comment on the WTO protests in Seattle.
As much as I feel the punks in Seattle were out of line with violence, I gotta say making a statement like that (listening, George?) is out of line. Let's stay on the subject and kill the flamethrowers.
And oh yes, can the political crap- if I want that, I can go to the free-fire zones on AOL.
Personally, I miss the cabooses, but I also realize that railroaders up until the mid-1980s had mixed opinions about them. As far as one-man operations go, there are some shortlines already (I can think of RailAmerica) that have one man in the cab, and the other following in a truck alongside
to run ahead & check track conditions and throw switches if necessary. I personally
would like to see absolutely NO LESS THAN 2
human beings in the cab of ANY locomotive moving ANY train. Electronics are nice, but they can break down- humans are a decent backup system.


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Railroadin' on the Western Slope!
NARA Member # 18

 

[wt&c]

there has been an old Chessie caboose stetting around for about 4 months now here. To see a pic, go to my homepage, click on photos, and go the the bottom under railfanning photos (the only raifanning photo) it is about as close as I could get but it works. Any way, this caboose has been sitting in the run-around track for ETI(3 miles up the old weston main) since the evening of January 6th. It has only moved about 20 yards in either directon since. No one knows why, not even the local hobby store owner.

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NARA Member #8
www.a&a.77th.com/
The Appalachian & Atlantic Railroad
"QUALITY at WORK with SAFTEY in MIND"

[This message has been edited by wt&c (edited 04-02-2001).]