Brubaker's Panther

Discussion in 'Aircraft & Aviation' started by Bowdenja, Mar 23, 2009.

  1. dhanners

    dhanners Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    0
    I haven't piped in on this thread yet but I do want to offer a general comment. (Aside from commenting that I'm anticipating this aircraft, that is.) Anyway, I know in plastic modeling, folks often talk about the concept of "scale color," i.e., that if you have two items that are the same color but different sizes, the smaller one will appear lighter. Hence, a lot of aircraft modelers lighten their colors a bit, and the smaller the scale, the more they lighten them.

    The other side of that is that a color is a color is a color.... "Gunship Gray" is the same color whether it's on a 1/1 F-16 or a 1/72nd model of an F-16. But to my eye, there is the appearance that it's lighter on the smaller version of the aircraft.

    Anyway, I'm wondering if that should be a consideration here. I'm not saying it should be; rather, I'm just throwing the idea out there in case it hadn't occurred to anyone yet.

    While I don't generally build aircraft, I am kind of anticipating this one because when I was a kid (a long time ago...) the old Aurora model of the Panther was one of my favorites:
    http://www.oldmodelkits.com/index.php?detail=11797&manu=Aurora&searchtext=panther
  2. lancer525

    lancer525 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    0
    David, doggone if you didn't beat me to it once again!

    I was going to suggest that since colors appear differently due to scale, to the eye, that it might not be a bad idea to go with the lighter blue I suggested, (since it was an RGB conversion of the actual mil-spec color) and use grey lines.

    GMTA!
  3. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,677
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the input guys........

    Ken I hope this is ok but here is a sample of some of it........... this is the darker color (dhanners - what do you think?) and a 50% grey panel line.

    Also this is 72 dpi and rescaled down so it really can not be use for much else except looking at the colors.......... OH..... yeah there is a small watermark you have to ignore.sign1

    Attached Files:

  4. reklein

    reklein Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm gonna chime in here a little. One of the guys I coffee with in the AM served on PBM mariners in the early fifties. He said the blue was so dark as to almost appear black. BILL
  5. dhanners

    dhanners Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    0
    It looks fine to me, but it's one of those deals where I'm going to have to see the thing built up to get a true feel for whether the color looks right. Then again, I must caution that I'm not an expert on post-WWII U.S. Navy colors.
  6. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,677
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well I have printed out the wings with this color and it looks pretty close. I don't think it would be prudent to go any darker. And I like the gray lines, but I haven't printed one out with them yet, so that's still up in the air.

    I'm also attaching a WIP of a drawing I'm doing....... no I didn't want to tackle two Brubakers at one time... it has different markings sign1

    Anyway I keep posting up stuff as I get it done.

    Thanks again for the help.

    john

    Attached Files:

  7. exzealot

    exzealot Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2007
    Messages:
    466
    Likes Received:
    0
    "Almost black" describes it pretty well.

    Ken
  8. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,677
    Likes Received:
    0
  9. Cybermac

    Cybermac Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2006
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    0
    ...

    What a nice idea!:thumb:
    The Bridges of Toko Ri - first time I've seen F9F Panther...

    My best regards!

    Cybermac
  10. cdavenport

    cdavenport Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    651
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have been out for awhile due to a family emergency, so I am coming to this discussion too late as it appears.

    But, for the sake of posterity and future design efforts, there is no such thing as a "correct color." There are FS numbers that are "supposed" to go on aircraft and these can be matched. But, the only time those colors remain true is when the aircraft is freshly painted and parked indoors. As soon as the plane hits the sunlight and weather, the color changes.

    But, it does not change in an entirely predictable manner, or at least it did not way back then. So, the "color" you decide to apply to a model is really only a representation of that airplane on a given day and it's anybody's guess. The classic color change is the USAAC olive drab finish. The range of color variation is huge. Gloss finishes such as those used on USN types show huge color and tonal variations over time.

    In Brubaker's case, I imagine that finish on his aircraft would not have been very pristine at all. The USN carrier aircraft is particularly susceptible to this owing to the limited repaint capability on board a carrier, the length of deployments, and the extreme operating conditions.

    Sorry for the dissertation. Short story: if the color pleases you, then it's right.
  11. dhanners

    dhanners Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've always felt Maj. Davenport's view of color (literally and figuratively) is correct and that modelers -- styrene-heads, anyway -- get way too anal about such issues. In the elements and under everyday use, lots of things affect the "color" of an aircraft or vehicle, particularly one under heavy use and in combat. Throw in the mechanism for preserving those images, i.e., photography and its vagaries, and "exact" color is hard to pin down.

    Obviously, if a B-17 is supposed to be olive drab and light gray, you shouldn't paint it chartreuse and lavender, but if you're close, you're probably ok.
  12. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,677
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks guys. Yeah y'all are right. Pristine colors on a model are usually the norm, where as in real life they are hardly ever found in that shape.

    USN aircraft seem to get weather much more and faster, sun, salt spray, and the wear and of normal operations do take their toll on the paint.

    With the re-colors I have done in the past I have found it hard to get a color that everyone can settle on, so for me I do take the "if it looks good.... use it" path.

    Hopefully everyone will enjoy this one when I do get it finished. I'm still trying to get everything lined up correctly across all those part. :thumb:

    john
  13. cdavenport

    cdavenport Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    651
    Likes Received:
    0
    I want to ask a totally different form of the color question. From a designer's point of view, how much time does it take to recolor one of these models?

    I imagine that answer is predicated on the overall complexity of the model in terms of the file size. So, just for a reference point, how many hours will you expend at the computer recoloring KWest's Panther?

    The reason I ask is that I have an idea for a lovely wall mural of aircraft nose art. If you have ever visited one of the main hangars of the CAF (Confederate Air Force, now renamed Commemorative Air Force), they are adorned with the remains of nose of art from aircraft that ended their combat career in the smelter.

    How easy would it be to recreate a large scale nose section of an aircraft and just do recolors of the nose art? With all the information out there, one could be at this for years! Imagine a 1/16 scale version of the Dragon and Its Tail emblazoned on the side of a B-24 adorning your wall.

    It's ART, I tell ya'!
  14. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,677
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's a cool idea! John Dell did something similar with the FG B-24 series he did, he had just a nose and cockpit section enlarged. I thought they would make great bookends, but never got a round to it.

    To answer your re-color question......... It really depends on the complexity of the model....... how many different parts you have to put a marking across........ how picky you are about perfect alignment.......... how much detail you do want to add..... if you want to add weathering to the model.... stuff like that.

    On Ken's Panther, even thought it is 1/48 scale, I'm kinda going overboard with the details so I will probably spend about 40 hrs on the computer....... not counting the many section build I do the check the alignment.

    I'm also adding some more panel lines and some of the informational marking stenciling that was on the aircraft so that takes up some more time doing a little research. I want to do some more versions of the Panther and taking my time getting all the marking correct will save me time in the long run as I can just re-use most of them from scheme to scheme. Star and bar, Navy or Marines, Warning stenciling,(just to name a few) are located in most schemes in the same general spot on the aircraft..........

    But I also have to add that I'm not as good at the photoshop manipulations as some of the other guys that do this sort of thing beautifully, so that adds some time to the total........

    The great thing is once you do get it down it goes a little bit easier the next time.

    My suggestion is "Go for it!" :thumb: Pick a software (PhotoShop, Paint Shop Pro, GIMP) and stick with it. I'll help anyway I can and I know there are several guys around here and at Papermodelers.com that will help if you run into something you can't figure out.

    john
  15. cdavenport

    cdavenport Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    651
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the info. I am going to have to learn how to do this stuff. I wish there was a class I could take.
  16. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,677
    Likes Received:
    0
    The best thing is to start out with simple models............ I can send you some files to start with if you'd like.

    Also there are some tutorials online that can be helpful. Just give me a shout when you ready to get going and I'll send you some stuff.
  17. lancer525

    lancer525 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    0
    Paper modeling is just a matter of finding out how your personal techniques for cutting, folding, and gluing, can be made to work with plans for a model. Most of the techniques are pretty basic, but they can get pretty specific and difficult depending on how complex the kit you're working on may be. The one trick to paper modeling is to do it more and more and more, and your skills will develop.
  18. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,677
    Likes Received:
    0
    Got the Stars and bars, front numbers and NAVY to line up on the fuselage parts tonight :thumb: I've still got a few other fuselage marking to do, but these will be easier with the major markings I have already lined up.

    The only major thing that's left for the fuselage is that dang dragon on the nose!

    So maybe it won't be a whole lot longer............. meanwhile enjoy Ken's XB-70 thread.:wave:

    john
  19. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,677
    Likes Received:
    0
    If anyone is still interested......... I've sent Ken the files and it getting pretty close to being completed. :thumb:

    john
  20. rmks2000

    rmks2000 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    563
    Likes Received:
    0
    Great to hear!